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[Music]

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bespoke radio

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for the masses headline edition july 8

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1947

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the army air forces has announced that a

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flying disk has been found and is now in

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the possession of the army

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if the game is rigged change the game

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game changer

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i occasionally think how quickly our

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differences worldwide

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would vanish if we were facing an alien

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threat

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from outside this world

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[Applause]

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this is fade to black with your host

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jimmy church

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on the game changer radio network and

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kgra

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i need your help to get to the year

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1985.

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[Music]

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you're listening to fate to flag with

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jimmy church on the game changer network

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[Music]

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good evening

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fade to black

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bespoke radio for

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masses

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yeah how you doing how you doing

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2020 141 days into the new year

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[Music]

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only 225 days left we are live from a

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bunker somewhere in the middle of

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beautiful downtown burbank california

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i would like to welcome everybody

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listening all around the world all

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across the united states

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hither and tether to and fro back and

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forth up and down

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east and west north and south far and

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this is fade to black for kjcr the game

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changer network and kg r

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a the planets i'm your host jimmy church

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what is cracking everybody how you doing

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go back lee tappy that's what tonight is

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yeah man dr

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robert shock is here for our go beckley

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teppy special event

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we will be talking about his recent trip

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and documentary to the historic site

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its history and the recent media

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coverage about

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how geometry was used in its

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construction

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over ten thousand years ago dr robert m

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shock a full-time faculty member at the

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college of general studies at boston

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university

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since 1984 earned his phd in geology

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and geophysics at yale university is ms

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and m phil

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in geology and geophysics from yale as

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well as his degrees in anthropology ba

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and geology bs from george

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washington university in the early 1990s

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dr

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shock along with john anthony west

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recast the date of the great sphinx of

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egypt

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from 2600 bc all the way back to around

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10

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500 bc by demonstrating that the

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monument has been actively eroded by

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water despite the fact that its location

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on the edge of the sahara has endured

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hyper arid climatic conditions for the

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past

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5 000 years he revealed to the world

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that mankind's history is greater and

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older

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than previously believed i would like to

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welcome back

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to fade to black our good friend dr

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robert m

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shock robert good evening man how are

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you very good good evening thank you

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now here we are uh just real quick

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uh we don't have to spend any time on

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this but i do want to check in with you

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and everybody's wondering

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uh a how you're doing and b you're

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in boston which is uh full of

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universities

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you guys have a couple of restaurants

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and then nothing but

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universities and school systems there

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well we once had university yeah

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we still have universities but um an

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answer to your question

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and i'll be honest and i think i told

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you this and i'm not trying to make a

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big deal of it but the

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covid 19 has really been hitting hard

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uh my father actually was in virginia

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very you know he was 88 but he was hit

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with it he

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passed away from it uh that that's

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um yeah i'm not hiding that so it's been

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sad

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and in the boston area here all the

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students have been sent home

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so all of a sudden we have a really

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empty city

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and i teach full-time all the classes

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have been

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moved to remote and we don't know what's

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going to happen come fall again

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everything during the summer was

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cancelled as far as in person

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everything is remote those that remain

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the classes that remain

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and we don't know about the fault it

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really is hitting hard yeah

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and when uh when school kicks up and

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everybody's asking

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this same question we have to wonder

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about this it doesn't matter if we're

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talking about preschool or kindergarten

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elementary

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it doesn't matter uh the school systems

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across the country and certainly around

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the world uh

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can't be the same well you know what do

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you think it's going to be

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like once they're not going to be the

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same

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there's been a lot of discussion at

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least that i've been a part of at the

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university level that we're going to

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have to have

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incredible social distancing we have

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classrooms that

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are not made for social distancing as is

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being

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asked for etc so we may have to start

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spreading students out

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we're talking about i mean there's

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discussion possibly

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going to a modified system what they

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call

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mixed system our mixed blend

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where some of it is remote online some

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of it is

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in classroom uh it's it's

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the world's going to be very different

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coming out of this and

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i don't think it's going to end any time

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too soon i mean it's not going in

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completely yes

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all the states are coming back right now

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all the

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been easy of restrictions i believe in

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every state

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but it's not the same and we're still

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wearing mass here in boston

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uh it was only monday that we they

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started

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it to ease up on some of the

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restrictions well it's very different

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and you know i i hate to say it but uh

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it ties in with my own work

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in the sense and i you know you know

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jimmy you know that i'm not one of these

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doomsayers preppers you know

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trying to say that the world is going to

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end

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per se based on no particular evidence

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but

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we know that nature you can't control

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nature

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and we had a major catastrophe at the

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end of the last ice age we'll probably

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talk about that which was solar

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solar induced and if we have something

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like that again which i think we will

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eventually

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it's going to make a pandemic like this

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look like nothing

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yeah and you know you know the social

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distancing

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in schools it's going to make cheating

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on tests really hard

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yeah yeah yeah it's really going to

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change things on the other hand

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right now i can tell you and i mean i'm

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being absolutely serious about this i've

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looked at statistics

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for our for the

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last semester because we just came out

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the last semester

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right and grades are sky high why

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because there was quote compassion and

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students were gone they had to leave

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during

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the middle of the semester so the

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standard

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should we say

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it's it's that's not going to stay the

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same that's not going to stay that way

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we've all now that's interesting and

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yeah it is it is but a lot of people

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were

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felt bad for students who all of a

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sudden i mean there were students

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let me put this way there were students

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who went home

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on spring recess and were never allowed

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back on campus

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so they literally went home they didn't

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necessarily take their books some of

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them

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etc because they thought they'd be back

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in three days or a week

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right and all of a sudden they can't

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come back and

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their things are packaged up for them

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and held in storage until it can be sent

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to the i mean

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it's just an insane situation yeah and

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what about

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uh so so a lot of faculty ended up

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having a lot of compassion

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and saying you know they understood that

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they couldn't get things done on time et

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cetera et cetera

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we've got so much to discuss tonight but

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the the school situation

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um having you know a ten-year professor

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right here uh from uh boston university

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we it's an opportunity for me to ask

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questions and and one of them

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is this if i was a parent

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that just dropped 50 grand

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a year on a college for my child to

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attend

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that university and now the experience

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of living

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and and being at school and on campus is

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removed do i give my money back

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how does that work or would this

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yeah or right or or or

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or not right or not well

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the answer is a mixture

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some of the money is being refunded now

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i am not making these decisions i'm not

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in the inside so i'm only speaking in

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generalities i actually don't know all

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the details

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but a lot of it has to do with refunding

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certain things like

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dorm fees for part of the semester

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meal plans that type of thing but on the

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other hand

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and i not trying to defend either side

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one way or another

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right on the other hand tuition is

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paying faculty members who whether

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they're doing it remotely or not

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are still doing their jobs

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and in fact i can tell you from a

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faculty point of view

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this is not easier on the faculty this

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is

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much more difficult it's a lot more time

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consuming to do these things

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remotely i'd much rather be in a

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classroom talking to the students and

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dealing

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it's a much better experience for the

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students but

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not to sound selfish it's a lot easier

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dealing with students

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in person and trying to do it remotely

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and having meetings remotely with

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small groups of students or individually

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or trying to give lectures and trying to

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00:11:25,350 --> 00:11:22,000
get feedback and deal

289
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:25,360
it's it's it it's

290
00:11:29,829 --> 00:11:27,600
it's at least five to ten times as much

291
00:11:31,750 --> 00:11:29,839
work in time if nothing else

292
00:11:34,069 --> 00:11:31,760
yeah well in person you get to crack

293
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:34,079
somebody with a wooden yardstick too

294
00:11:38,230 --> 00:11:36,720
oh well i i know i actually i use meter

295
00:11:39,829 --> 00:11:38,240
sticks

296
00:11:41,990 --> 00:11:39,839
i i'll tell you a quick story i

297
00:11:44,310 --> 00:11:42,000
shouldn't do this but i when i was first

298
00:11:46,069 --> 00:11:44,320
started teaching i once had an unruly

299
00:11:47,430 --> 00:11:46,079
group of students and it was in a lab

300
00:11:49,910 --> 00:11:47,440
and i had a yardstick

301
00:11:50,550 --> 00:11:49,920
yep so so i decided i would bang it on

302
00:11:53,350 --> 00:11:50,560
the desk

303
00:11:53,829 --> 00:11:53,360
in front of me to get their attention

304
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:53,839
yes

305
00:11:57,509 --> 00:11:56,720
and i did that i think it was a old

306
00:11:59,430 --> 00:11:57,519
yardstick

307
00:12:00,790 --> 00:11:59,440
and maybe i was just a little too rough

308
00:12:03,910 --> 00:12:00,800
and you know i'm not a

309
00:12:06,389 --> 00:12:03,920
big burly like you are um you know rough

310
00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:06,399
and tough guy

311
00:12:09,990 --> 00:12:08,480
so this is not like me normally but i

312
00:12:13,190 --> 00:12:10,000
smacked on the table just to make

313
00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:13,200
a sound it went splintering into all

314
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:14,800
kinds of pieces

315
00:12:18,470 --> 00:12:17,760
and and they were now that class they

316
00:12:21,910 --> 00:12:18,480
were the

317
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:21,920
mildest quietest class for the rest of

318
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,880
the semester

319
00:12:26,069 --> 00:12:25,040
right on right on i'm glad it's still

320
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:26,079
being done

321
00:12:31,750 --> 00:12:29,120
well okay this is uh

322
00:12:33,350 --> 00:12:31,760
a great way to because you just brought

323
00:12:35,350 --> 00:12:33,360
up the last ice age

324
00:12:37,509 --> 00:12:35,360
and as we get into this discussion

325
00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:37,519
tonight we've got lots of uh

326
00:12:41,590 --> 00:12:40,240
exciting things to go over and and go

327
00:12:44,389 --> 00:12:41,600
beckley tepee

328
00:12:45,750 --> 00:12:44,399
is important to you and i uh so much

329
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:45,760
very important

330
00:12:50,310 --> 00:12:49,279
i need to say one thing sure because i

331
00:12:51,750 --> 00:12:50,320
heard your little

332
00:12:53,829 --> 00:12:51,760
your comments your little your

333
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:53,839
introduction to me but i actually tuned

334
00:12:57,509 --> 00:12:55,760
in for the half hour beforehand so i

335
00:13:00,069 --> 00:12:57,519
heard what you were talking about

336
00:13:01,509 --> 00:13:00,079
which is incredibly interesting but i

337
00:13:03,750 --> 00:13:01,519
don't want to say you made a mistake

338
00:13:04,629 --> 00:13:03,760
but you said how go beckley tepe

339
00:13:07,110 --> 00:13:04,639
overturned

340
00:13:08,470 --> 00:13:07,120
things because it's so much older i

341
00:13:10,710 --> 00:13:08,480
hundred percent agree

342
00:13:12,629 --> 00:13:10,720
but you also know that i was talking

343
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:12,639
about civilization going back much

344
00:13:14,710 --> 00:13:13,360
earlier

345
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:14,720
and of course you mentioned then the

346
00:13:19,670 --> 00:13:17,040
introduction with the sphinx so

347
00:13:21,750 --> 00:13:19,680
i do believe this all ties together and

348
00:13:22,870 --> 00:13:21,760
beckley topic confirms what john anthony

349
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:22,880
west and i have

350
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:24,880
been saying for a very long time yeah

351
00:13:29,829 --> 00:13:26,320
there's no question about it

352
00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:29,839
and and coming on

353
00:13:35,430 --> 00:13:33,680
the eve of you coming on the show which

354
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:35,440
and i want the audience to know that uh

355
00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:36,000
robert

356
00:13:40,629 --> 00:13:39,440
and i uh have been planning this now for

357
00:13:42,310 --> 00:13:40,639
a few weeks this

358
00:13:44,550 --> 00:13:42,320
isn't something that was decided on

359
00:13:47,509 --> 00:13:44,560
yesterday and

360
00:13:48,310 --> 00:13:47,519
uh so in that period over the last three

361
00:13:51,670 --> 00:13:48,320
weeks this

362
00:13:54,790 --> 00:13:51,680
big announcement uh popped up

363
00:13:57,829 --> 00:13:54,800
about the solar minimum

364
00:14:01,030 --> 00:13:57,839
and that we are now entering a grand

365
00:14:01,990 --> 00:14:01,040
solar minimum and this is something that

366
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,000
most people have never

367
00:14:06,790 --> 00:14:04,720
heard of before um with all of the

368
00:14:09,189 --> 00:14:06,800
global warming conversations

369
00:14:11,189 --> 00:14:09,199
whether it's natural or man-made and

370
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,199
what is inducing it that that part of it

371
00:14:16,310 --> 00:14:13,199
can be left out

372
00:14:17,189 --> 00:14:16,320
the the point is global warming is a

373
00:14:19,829 --> 00:14:17,199
discussion

374
00:14:20,470 --> 00:14:19,839
that has been going on for a long time

375
00:14:23,590 --> 00:14:20,480
now

376
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:23,600
we have to talk about this grand solar

377
00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:25,600
minimum and when you go and read through

378
00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:27,760
this where they talk about these cycles

379
00:14:32,310 --> 00:14:28,720
of time

380
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:32,320
every and it's right there every 11

381
00:14:36,710 --> 00:14:34,399
000 years right and you're reading and

382
00:14:40,710 --> 00:14:36,720
you're going okay here we go right

383
00:14:43,910 --> 00:14:40,720
and they talk about uh the last time

384
00:14:47,030 --> 00:14:43,920
that this period uh had ended which

385
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:47,040
obviously is 11 000 years ago

386
00:14:50,310 --> 00:14:48,959
go back to tapi right the end of the

387
00:14:53,110 --> 00:14:50,320
last ice age and

388
00:14:54,629 --> 00:14:53,120
all of these events that are well

389
00:14:58,069 --> 00:14:54,639
documented

390
00:15:00,949 --> 00:14:58,079
and here we are about to enter the grand

391
00:15:02,710 --> 00:15:00,959
solar or that we are now officially in

392
00:15:06,710 --> 00:15:02,720
the grand solar minimum

393
00:15:07,189 --> 00:15:06,720
and there is a possibility of a new ice

394
00:15:09,910 --> 00:15:07,199
age

395
00:15:10,790 --> 00:15:09,920
that is upon us some don't want to go

396
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:10,800
that far

397
00:15:17,030 --> 00:15:14,480
do they robert but no some yeah go ahead

398
00:15:17,829 --> 00:15:17,040
but there is no question that we are now

399
00:15:19,590 --> 00:15:17,839
entering uh

400
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:19,600
a grand solar minimum what what does

401
00:15:23,030 --> 00:15:21,040
that mean in our world okay

402
00:15:25,110 --> 00:15:23,040
are we i want to put this into a bigger

403
00:15:27,910 --> 00:15:25,120
context because i'm a geologist

404
00:15:29,509 --> 00:15:27,920
and i tend to look at cycles that are

405
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:29,519
more than 11 years

406
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:30,959
that you're talking about the sunspot

407
00:15:33,749 --> 00:15:33,279
cycle and yes absolutely we're going to

408
00:15:38,389 --> 00:15:33,759
grant

409
00:15:41,910 --> 00:15:38,399
solar minimum but that is

410
00:15:43,030 --> 00:15:41,920
a short short-term event in the bigger

411
00:15:45,269 --> 00:15:43,040
scheme of things

412
00:15:47,350 --> 00:15:45,279
and what i think is really important and

413
00:15:49,590 --> 00:15:47,360
this is to put things into perspective

414
00:15:51,430 --> 00:15:49,600
we're going into a situation over the

415
00:15:53,829 --> 00:15:51,440
last century plus

416
00:15:55,670 --> 00:15:53,839
where the sun is going through these

417
00:15:57,910 --> 00:15:55,680
periods of highs and lows so it's

418
00:15:59,189 --> 00:15:57,920
becoming very erratic we're going into a

419
00:16:01,829 --> 00:15:59,199
minimum right now

420
00:16:03,990 --> 00:16:01,839
when you look at proxies and what i'm

421
00:16:08,150 --> 00:16:04,000
referring to is isotope data

422
00:16:11,189 --> 00:16:08,160
and various sedimentological data

423
00:16:13,350 --> 00:16:11,199
vitrification including lunar data etc

424
00:16:14,310 --> 00:16:13,360
what we saw at the end of the last ice

425
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:14,320
age was

426
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:16,720
a sun that was very active then it went

427
00:16:21,110 --> 00:16:17,680
into a

428
00:16:23,269 --> 00:16:21,120
very low a low a low period

429
00:16:24,470 --> 00:16:23,279
and with almost no activity then it

430
00:16:27,269 --> 00:16:24,480
exploded again

431
00:16:28,069 --> 00:16:27,279
into activity so we're going into a

432
00:16:31,110 --> 00:16:28,079
period

433
00:16:32,230 --> 00:16:31,120
in my assessment where the sun is going

434
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:32,240
through

435
00:16:37,269 --> 00:16:36,240
very volatile changes both extremes up

436
00:16:40,310 --> 00:16:37,279
and down

437
00:16:43,829 --> 00:16:40,320
so what is going to happen ultimately

438
00:16:46,069 --> 00:16:43,839
we don't honestly know could we go back

439
00:16:49,110 --> 00:16:46,079
into a ice age

440
00:16:52,629 --> 00:16:49,120
yes but before we go into

441
00:16:53,189 --> 00:16:52,639
an ice age could we have an explosive

442
00:16:56,710 --> 00:16:53,199
event

443
00:16:57,030 --> 00:16:56,720
on the sun yes also and i want to give

444
00:16:59,590 --> 00:16:57,040
you

445
00:17:00,069 --> 00:16:59,600
this is very new in my own research give

446
00:17:03,030 --> 00:17:00,079
you an

447
00:17:05,429 --> 00:17:03,040
example of that so you know about the

448
00:17:07,270 --> 00:17:05,439
younger driest i think that most of your

449
00:17:08,870 --> 00:17:07,280
audience knows about the younger driest

450
00:17:11,189 --> 00:17:08,880
correct that's right

451
00:17:11,990 --> 00:17:11,199
and the younger dries is a 1200 year

452
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,000
period

453
00:17:18,630 --> 00:17:15,199
at the end of the last ice age that was

454
00:17:21,990 --> 00:17:18,640
abnormally cool even by ice age

455
00:17:23,110 --> 00:17:22,000
standards so the younger driest starts

456
00:17:26,870 --> 00:17:23,120
at about 10

457
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:26,880
900 bc the ice age ends at 9 700

458
00:17:31,270 --> 00:17:29,280
bc and that i use the dates that are

459
00:17:31,590 --> 00:17:31,280
based on ice cores other people like to

460
00:17:33,669 --> 00:17:31,600
use

461
00:17:35,510 --> 00:17:33,679
throw other dates around but i'm going

462
00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:35,520
to stick with the ones i have

463
00:17:39,110 --> 00:17:37,760
and so many people have gone off on

464
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:39,120
these tangents and i'm

465
00:17:43,350 --> 00:17:41,039
not trying to make fun of anyone but i

466
00:17:45,590 --> 00:17:43,360
have good evidence for what i'm saying

467
00:17:47,590 --> 00:17:45,600
that oh it was a comet that initiated

468
00:17:49,110 --> 00:17:47,600
the younger driest it was a cooling

469
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:49,120
event

470
00:17:55,669 --> 00:17:53,039
that to me does not hold up

471
00:17:56,549 --> 00:17:55,679
when you look at the data um all the

472
00:17:59,190 --> 00:17:56,559
data

473
00:18:02,150 --> 00:17:59,200
that and i've looked at very carefully

474
00:18:05,750 --> 00:18:02,160
everything from nanodiamonds to scoria

475
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:05,760
etc etc is much more compatible

476
00:18:12,150 --> 00:18:08,880
with a major solar event a major

477
00:18:15,510 --> 00:18:12,160
solar eruption that caused

478
00:18:18,230 --> 00:18:15,520
a cooling period and how can the sun

479
00:18:18,549 --> 00:18:18,240
cause a cooling period at that time you

480
00:18:21,990 --> 00:18:18,559
had

481
00:18:24,789 --> 00:18:22,000
major buildup of ice dams etc

482
00:18:26,549 --> 00:18:24,799
on north america and with a solar

483
00:18:28,549 --> 00:18:26,559
eruption you were broken

484
00:18:29,830 --> 00:18:28,559
and melted those and that just in the

485
00:18:31,830 --> 00:18:29,840
last two years there's been

486
00:18:33,430 --> 00:18:31,840
data that's come out that that is

487
00:18:36,070 --> 00:18:33,440
exactly what happened

488
00:18:38,070 --> 00:18:36,080
it changed circulation patterns in the

489
00:18:41,430 --> 00:18:38,080
north atlantic etc

490
00:18:44,310 --> 00:18:41,440
and drove the earth into a

491
00:18:46,750 --> 00:18:44,320
cooling period for about 1200 years

492
00:18:49,590 --> 00:18:46,760
before it was then snapped out at

493
00:18:52,789 --> 00:18:49,600
9700 bc with another

494
00:18:53,270 --> 00:18:52,799
major even larger i believe based on the

495
00:18:56,390 --> 00:18:53,280
data

496
00:18:57,270 --> 00:18:56,400
solar eruption that then ended the ice

497
00:18:59,110 --> 00:18:57,280
age ultimately

498
00:19:00,630 --> 00:18:59,120
not only ended the younger driest but

499
00:19:03,750 --> 00:19:00,640
ended the last ice age

500
00:19:06,549 --> 00:19:03,760
and interestingly gobekli tapping i know

501
00:19:08,630 --> 00:19:06,559
that um i shouldn't say gobekli tepe too

502
00:19:09,990 --> 00:19:08,640
often because every time i say gobekli

503
00:19:11,830 --> 00:19:10,000
tepe i realized that

504
00:19:13,590 --> 00:19:11,840
that might spark something in your

505
00:19:14,390 --> 00:19:13,600
audience so i'll try not to say go back

506
00:19:16,470 --> 00:19:14,400
lee tape

507
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:16,480
more than i have to say goodbye yeah

508
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:18,640
don't say go back later i will not take

509
00:19:23,909 --> 00:19:20,720
a beckley tape if i can avoid it maybe

510
00:19:25,669 --> 00:19:23,919
if i say gt will that not count you know

511
00:19:26,870 --> 00:19:25,679
what they have their rules that they

512
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:26,880
live by and i believe

513
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:29,919
gt is an acceptable term

514
00:19:34,870 --> 00:19:32,480
okay um but the point is in all

515
00:19:38,870 --> 00:19:34,880
seriousness quebec lee tepe

516
00:19:42,230 --> 00:19:38,880
occurs at spans 9700 bc

517
00:19:44,230 --> 00:19:42,240
it literally occurs um the culmination

518
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:44,240
of quebec lee tepe at the end of the

519
00:19:49,270 --> 00:19:45,840
last ice age and we see

520
00:19:49,830 --> 00:19:49,280
evidence of this final major solar event

521
00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:49,840
when i say

522
00:19:53,270 --> 00:19:52,000
final major the one that ended the ice

523
00:19:55,990 --> 00:19:53,280
age there

524
00:19:56,630 --> 00:19:56,000
so my point in the bigger picture is

525
00:20:00,870 --> 00:19:56,640
that

526
00:20:03,909 --> 00:20:00,880
last ice age

527
00:20:05,909 --> 00:20:03,919
is very similar to what we have now

528
00:20:07,190 --> 00:20:05,919
from everything we can tell where we

529
00:20:10,149 --> 00:20:07,200
have a very active

530
00:20:12,230 --> 00:20:10,159
very volatile sun going through periods

531
00:20:14,149 --> 00:20:12,240
of incredible activity then it looks

532
00:20:16,149 --> 00:20:14,159
like it's going dormant then it becomes

533
00:20:18,390 --> 00:20:16,159
very active again

534
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:18,400
uh and we and there's been a number of

535
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:20,080
papers published

536
00:20:23,270 --> 00:20:21,919
in you know very reputable journals

537
00:20:26,549 --> 00:20:23,280
including nature and

538
00:20:27,029 --> 00:20:26,559
astronomy and astrophysics etc that the

539
00:20:29,270 --> 00:20:27,039
sun

540
00:20:31,909 --> 00:20:29,280
is going through a period now with more

541
00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:31,919
activity more volatility

542
00:20:37,029 --> 00:20:35,120
overall than it has since the end of the

543
00:20:39,590 --> 00:20:37,039
last ice age so

544
00:20:41,590 --> 00:20:39,600
i don't want people to sit back and say

545
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,600
oh the sun is going to a grand minimum

546
00:20:46,149 --> 00:20:43,440
that means nothing's going to happen

547
00:20:47,029 --> 00:20:46,159
in fact when it goes into that period

548
00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:47,039
it's almost like

549
00:20:50,470 --> 00:20:48,799
you know use a sort of anthropomorphic

550
00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:50,480
analogy it's almost like it's holding

551
00:20:54,549 --> 00:20:51,120
its

552
00:20:57,590 --> 00:20:54,559
breath or about to sneeze but doesn't

553
00:21:01,350 --> 00:20:57,600
right and then eventually it lets it out

554
00:21:02,950 --> 00:21:01,360
and we saw this actually in 1859 with

555
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:02,960
the carrington event

556
00:21:07,110 --> 00:21:05,679
which all of a sudden you had this huge

557
00:21:10,710 --> 00:21:07,120
outburst from the sun

558
00:21:12,470 --> 00:21:10,720
huge from a human perspective very minor

559
00:21:13,830 --> 00:21:12,480
actually astrophysically in the big

560
00:21:17,190 --> 00:21:13,840
picture of things

561
00:21:20,149 --> 00:21:17,200
um the 1859 carrington event which

562
00:21:21,590 --> 00:21:20,159
occurred as one astrophysicist described

563
00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:21,600
it in sort of a dull

564
00:21:26,630 --> 00:21:24,559
ho-hum cycle of the sun and then all of

565
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:26,640
a sudden this big event occurs

566
00:21:30,950 --> 00:21:28,799
and that seems to be the case there's

567
00:21:33,590 --> 00:21:30,960
now been events

568
00:21:36,230 --> 00:21:33,600
that have been picked up isotopically

569
00:21:40,149 --> 00:21:36,240
and 5400

570
00:21:42,789 --> 00:21:40,159
plus bc etc and they seem to correlate

571
00:21:43,350 --> 00:21:42,799
with again the same thing being a grand

572
00:21:45,590 --> 00:21:43,360
moon

573
00:21:47,590 --> 00:21:45,600
and then an event occurring a huge event

574
00:21:50,710 --> 00:21:47,600
occurring on the sun

575
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:50,720
so we should be very very careful

576
00:21:57,750 --> 00:21:54,400
when we think about this and not

577
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:57,760
draw some conclusions that i've seen

578
00:22:01,430 --> 00:21:59,520
some people want to draw which is oh you

579
00:22:02,070 --> 00:22:01,440
know the sun is going to do nothing now

580
00:22:05,750 --> 00:22:02,080
it's it's

581
00:22:06,070 --> 00:22:05,760
going to go and and be totally inactive

582
00:22:09,350 --> 00:22:06,080
no

583
00:22:10,060 --> 00:22:09,360
it could be very inactive and then all

584
00:22:11,270 --> 00:22:10,070
of a sudden

585
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:11,280
[Music]

586
00:22:17,350 --> 00:22:15,039
boom what does that do uh two questions

587
00:22:18,789 --> 00:22:17,360
what does that do with the stability of

588
00:22:21,990 --> 00:22:18,799
growing crops

589
00:22:24,789 --> 00:22:22,000
right even a few degrees lower

590
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:24,799
nature is nature is stable and is used

591
00:22:29,750 --> 00:22:26,400
to a few things number one

592
00:22:30,230 --> 00:22:29,760
and two does this mean that the two

593
00:22:33,270 --> 00:22:30,240
could

594
00:22:35,430 --> 00:22:33,280
offset each other the global warming

595
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:35,440
by a couple of degrees or a degree or

596
00:22:38,470 --> 00:22:36,640
half a degree

597
00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:38,480
and the grand solar minimum which could

598
00:22:41,990 --> 00:22:40,960
decrease things by half a degree or a

599
00:22:44,549 --> 00:22:42,000
degree

600
00:22:45,990 --> 00:22:44,559
and we'll just meet somewhere in the

601
00:22:46,950 --> 00:22:46,000
middle well you know what can we

602
00:22:49,029 --> 00:22:46,960
actually

603
00:22:51,270 --> 00:22:49,039
you're talking about oh it'll be a happy

604
00:22:52,149 --> 00:22:51,280
medium i don't believe that for a second

605
00:22:54,870 --> 00:22:52,159
honestly

606
00:22:56,630 --> 00:22:54,880
right uh what because what you end up

607
00:22:57,750 --> 00:22:56,640
getting and this ties in with what i was

608
00:23:01,510 --> 00:22:57,760
just talking about

609
00:23:05,110 --> 00:23:01,520
what you get end up getting is

610
00:23:07,990 --> 00:23:05,120
a lot of volatility and you get

611
00:23:08,630 --> 00:23:08,000
cold hot cold hot that type of thing

612
00:23:12,789 --> 00:23:08,640
even

613
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:12,799
now you get sometimes heat spells

614
00:23:18,310 --> 00:23:15,919
locally and cold snaps

615
00:23:20,230 --> 00:23:18,320
locally because what's happening is

616
00:23:22,789 --> 00:23:20,240
you're getting a lot more

617
00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:22,799
disruption in the atmospheric system and

618
00:23:25,990 --> 00:23:23,919
in the global

619
00:23:27,590 --> 00:23:26,000
circulation system including the oceans

620
00:23:29,909 --> 00:23:27,600
which moderates

621
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:29,919
and modulates temperature quite a bit so

622
00:23:34,310 --> 00:23:31,200
you you get

623
00:23:35,510 --> 00:23:34,320
a lot of um again i'll use the term

624
00:23:38,950 --> 00:23:35,520
volatility

625
00:23:41,110 --> 00:23:38,960
and change and what you want for growing

626
00:23:44,470 --> 00:23:41,120
seasons nice growing seasons

627
00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:44,480
is regularity you don't want all of a

628
00:23:48,630 --> 00:23:45,600
sudden

629
00:23:50,710 --> 00:23:48,640
hot cold hot cold hot cold hot cold

630
00:23:53,350 --> 00:23:50,720
you don't all of a sudden what warm dry

631
00:23:56,470 --> 00:23:53,360
warm dry in terms of precipitation

632
00:23:59,190 --> 00:23:56,480
and rain and what we're getting now is

633
00:23:59,909 --> 00:23:59,200
a lot of volatility look at what

634
00:24:02,710 --> 00:23:59,919
happened what

635
00:24:04,070 --> 00:24:02,720
where is it these dams that just broke

636
00:24:07,269 --> 00:24:04,080
in michigan

637
00:24:08,070 --> 00:24:07,279
yes in the news today right and that was

638
00:24:10,630 --> 00:24:08,080
because of

639
00:24:12,630 --> 00:24:10,640
um too much rain right as i understand

640
00:24:14,470 --> 00:24:12,640
it and all of a sudden you know they

641
00:24:18,549 --> 00:24:14,480
just couldn't hold it the ground

642
00:24:22,149 --> 00:24:18,559
gets absolutely soaked etc etc

643
00:24:23,350 --> 00:24:22,159
so you don't want these extremes you

644
00:24:26,789 --> 00:24:23,360
don't want these

645
00:24:30,390 --> 00:24:26,799
changes back and forth you want a nice

646
00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:30,400
moderate consistency especially

647
00:24:35,350 --> 00:24:32,720
not just for growing seasons for natural

648
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:35,360
ecosystems natural ecosystems can handle

649
00:24:39,350 --> 00:24:36,559
things better

650
00:24:41,110 --> 00:24:39,360
but we don't use natural ecosystems to

651
00:24:44,470 --> 00:24:41,120
raise our food nowadays

652
00:24:46,070 --> 00:24:44,480
we do agriculture we do artificial

653
00:24:48,950 --> 00:24:46,080
agriculture

654
00:24:49,750 --> 00:24:48,960
so much mono cropping big business big

655
00:24:53,029 --> 00:24:49,760
industry

656
00:24:53,669 --> 00:24:53,039
agriculture and the slightest little

657
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:53,679
blip

658
00:24:58,950 --> 00:24:56,960
can just wipe that out completely the

659
00:25:02,149 --> 00:24:58,960
season's a little too long a little too

660
00:25:05,510 --> 00:25:02,159
cold a little too dry a little too hot

661
00:25:08,789 --> 00:25:05,520
and yeah we're we are at a very

662
00:25:12,390 --> 00:25:08,799
we humans with you know seven

663
00:25:13,990 --> 00:25:12,400
what is it 7.6 7.7 billion or whatever

664
00:25:15,830 --> 00:25:14,000
i don't even think we actually know how

665
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:15,840
many humans are on earth because the

666
00:25:22,789 --> 00:25:19,440
some of the counts may be under counting

667
00:25:26,070 --> 00:25:22,799
but somewhere in that range uh

668
00:25:26,630 --> 00:25:26,080
approaching 8 billion i mean we're just

669
00:25:30,149 --> 00:25:26,640
stretching

670
00:25:32,310 --> 00:25:30,159
everything to the limits and again

671
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:32,320
i don't want to sound the wrong way but

672
00:25:37,750 --> 00:25:34,480
this covet 19

673
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:37,760
issue in america right now i think shows

674
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:40,080
how we just don't have

675
00:25:46,390 --> 00:25:43,360
the stockpiles and resources

676
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:46,400
everything has gone to just on just in

677
00:25:49,669 --> 00:25:47,120
time

678
00:25:50,789 --> 00:25:49,679
produce it just as quickly only as

679
00:25:55,029 --> 00:25:50,799
quickly as you need it

680
00:25:57,510 --> 00:25:55,039
etc we don't have uh

681
00:25:58,870 --> 00:25:57,520
we don't have the backup and the support

682
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:58,880
and the

683
00:26:03,350 --> 00:26:01,840
the stocks on hand if something fails

684
00:26:05,430 --> 00:26:03,360
yeah and that that

685
00:26:06,390 --> 00:26:05,440
applies very much to the food supply

686
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:06,400
yeah it's a

687
00:26:10,630 --> 00:26:09,120
very it's a very sobering wake-up call

688
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:10,640
there's there's no question about that

689
00:26:16,149 --> 00:26:11,679
and how

690
00:26:19,190 --> 00:26:16,159
not only how fragile the ecosystem is

691
00:26:22,549 --> 00:26:19,200
but it lets us know that we absolutely

692
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:22,559
is as advanced as we like to think we

693
00:26:27,830 --> 00:26:25,679
are we don't have any control we don't

694
00:26:31,269 --> 00:26:27,840
have any control the earth

695
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:31,279
the sun whatever nature is always going

696
00:26:36,230 --> 00:26:32,000
to do

697
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,240
conditions exactly exactly and

698
00:26:40,070 --> 00:26:38,320
and i do want to stress once again you

699
00:26:43,269 --> 00:26:40,080
the the ecosystems are

700
00:26:47,029 --> 00:26:43,279
the ecosystems are very very fragile

701
00:26:51,510 --> 00:26:47,039
but natural ecosystems can be fragile

702
00:26:51,990 --> 00:26:51,520
the human-created artificial ecosystems

703
00:26:55,110 --> 00:26:52,000
that we

704
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:55,120
call agriculture etc are even

705
00:27:01,269 --> 00:26:58,799
more fragile and then we're doing all

706
00:27:02,149 --> 00:27:01,279
kinds of stupid things like destroying

707
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:02,159
the base

708
00:27:07,029 --> 00:27:04,880
of the terrestrial ecosystems what i'm

709
00:27:08,789 --> 00:27:07,039
referring to is soil i was talking to

710
00:27:09,990 --> 00:27:08,799
katie my wife you know kate you know

711
00:27:11,750 --> 00:27:10,000
katie

712
00:27:14,390 --> 00:27:11,760
uh we were talking about this i think

713
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:14,400
just yesterday perhaps where

714
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,360
studies have shown are have calculated

715
00:27:22,230 --> 00:27:19,600
that we only have a few decades left

716
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:22,240
worth of soil the way we're going at it

717
00:27:24,950 --> 00:27:22,960
and

718
00:27:25,990 --> 00:27:24,960
a lot of it has to do with glyphosate

719
00:27:28,870 --> 00:27:26,000
and pollution

720
00:27:30,470 --> 00:27:28,880
and artificial you know pesticides

721
00:27:34,070 --> 00:27:30,480
glyphosate's one of the big ones

722
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:34,080
roundup well and this is so yeah we we

723
00:27:38,789 --> 00:27:37,440
are just you know this is a great segue

724
00:27:40,710 --> 00:27:38,799
we're going to head to a break right

725
00:27:44,389 --> 00:27:40,720
here but this is a great segue

726
00:27:47,750 --> 00:27:44,399
into not only uh go back lee tapi

727
00:27:49,830 --> 00:27:47,760
but the origins of gobekli tepe and

728
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:49,840
the ending of the construction of

729
00:27:53,430 --> 00:27:51,120
gobekli tepe

730
00:27:54,149 --> 00:27:53,440
everything is connected our guest

731
00:27:56,549 --> 00:27:54,159
tonight

732
00:27:57,350 --> 00:27:56,559
dr robert shock let's take our break

733
00:27:59,669 --> 00:27:57,360
right here i

734
00:28:01,350 --> 00:27:59,679
am your host jimmy church it's our go

735
00:28:02,950 --> 00:28:01,360
beckley teppy

736
00:28:04,389 --> 00:28:02,960
event stay right there we'll be right

737
00:28:07,430 --> 00:28:04,399
back

738
00:28:09,190 --> 00:28:07,440
dr robert m shock his website is right

739
00:28:10,630 --> 00:28:09,200
there at jimmychurchradio.com you can

740
00:28:13,549 --> 00:28:10,640
click on it

741
00:28:16,310 --> 00:28:13,559
and my email is jimmy

742
00:28:17,510 --> 00:28:16,320
jimmychurchradio.com and twitter is at j

743
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:17,520
church radio you can join the

744
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:19,520
conversation and hashtag

745
00:28:44,070 --> 00:28:42,230
[Music]

746
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,080
welcome back fade to black i am your

747
00:28:48,230 --> 00:28:45,840
host jimmy church tonight our go

748
00:28:49,190 --> 00:28:48,240
beckley techy special event with dr

749
00:28:51,909 --> 00:28:49,200
robert m

750
00:28:53,029 --> 00:28:51,919
shock want to remind everybody tomorrow

751
00:28:55,590 --> 00:28:53,039
night

752
00:28:57,350 --> 00:28:55,600
linda moulton howe will be here we're

753
00:28:59,909 --> 00:28:57,360
going to talk about oliver later's

754
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:59,919
research with coronavirus and kovid19

755
00:29:03,830 --> 00:29:00,799
but tonight

756
00:29:06,870 --> 00:29:03,840
it is dr robert m shock now robert

757
00:29:09,510 --> 00:29:06,880
you just got back from uh

758
00:29:09,909 --> 00:29:09,520
what is now modern day turkey uh and the

759
00:29:12,070 --> 00:29:09,919
site

760
00:29:14,149 --> 00:29:12,080
and their echobackly tepe where you were

761
00:29:17,590 --> 00:29:14,159
shooting a documentary

762
00:29:21,909 --> 00:29:17,600
and why don't you tell us about that and

763
00:29:24,310 --> 00:29:21,919
and what is the basis of the documentary

764
00:29:26,310 --> 00:29:24,320
okay that sounds that sounds very good

765
00:29:27,190 --> 00:29:26,320
and before i do i just wanted to mention

766
00:29:29,269 --> 00:29:27,200
i know you said

767
00:29:30,950 --> 00:29:29,279
that people could connect to my website

768
00:29:33,430 --> 00:29:30,960
from yours which is great

769
00:29:34,230 --> 00:29:33,440
but in case uh they have problems or if

770
00:29:36,950 --> 00:29:34,240
they want to

771
00:29:37,430 --> 00:29:36,960
know my website i can i put that in it's

772
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:37,440
robert

773
00:29:43,269 --> 00:29:41,440
shock r-o-b-e-r-t-s

774
00:29:44,470 --> 00:29:43,279
dot com and i mentioned that

775
00:29:47,350 --> 00:29:44,480
specifically

776
00:29:48,149 --> 00:29:47,360
because if they go there the first tab

777
00:29:50,549 --> 00:29:48,159
or the first

778
00:29:51,350 --> 00:29:50,559
sort of promo button on it will take

779
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:51,360
them to a

780
00:29:55,990 --> 00:29:54,799
trailer just under three minutes trailer

781
00:29:58,789 --> 00:29:56,000
based on

782
00:30:00,070 --> 00:29:58,799
the filming that we did in january of

783
00:30:03,350 --> 00:30:00,080
this year

784
00:30:05,029 --> 00:30:03,360
at uh turkey including some shots of

785
00:30:07,830 --> 00:30:05,039
quebec lee tepe

786
00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:07,840
so we were there in january just before

787
00:30:11,110 --> 00:30:09,760
the covid virus hit

788
00:30:13,269 --> 00:30:11,120
it was actually i guess starting to

789
00:30:14,789 --> 00:30:13,279
spread internationally while we were

790
00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:14,799
there but we got back

791
00:30:17,909 --> 00:30:17,200
and got back into new york just before

792
00:30:21,510 --> 00:30:17,919
the big

793
00:30:23,750 --> 00:30:21,520
you know the hubbub over it so that was

794
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:23,760
good timing but bad timing because i was

795
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:24,880
hoping to be in

796
00:30:30,630 --> 00:30:28,080
egypt and elsewhere uh instead of no

797
00:30:31,510 --> 00:30:30,640
no offense jimmy but instead of speaking

798
00:30:34,630 --> 00:30:31,520
to you

799
00:30:37,269 --> 00:30:34,640
i was playing to be in egypt right now

800
00:30:39,510 --> 00:30:37,279
um uh working on the documentary also

801
00:30:42,630 --> 00:30:39,520
but of course covet intervened

802
00:30:44,549 --> 00:30:42,640
now how has well are you when you

803
00:30:47,590 --> 00:30:44,559
arrived at gobekli tapi

804
00:30:48,070 --> 00:30:47,600
um how has it changed since the your

805
00:30:51,510 --> 00:30:48,080
first

806
00:30:53,669 --> 00:30:51,520
visits there yeah so it has

807
00:30:55,269 --> 00:30:53,679
changed dramatically and before i get to

808
00:30:57,830 --> 00:30:55,279
that i wanted to say that the

809
00:30:59,750 --> 00:30:57,840
documentary the working title for which

810
00:31:03,590 --> 00:30:59,760
i think will be the final title

811
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:03,600
is civilization before civilization

812
00:31:09,029 --> 00:31:06,720
which sounds like it's almost a misnomer

813
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:09,039
but what i'm referring to or what we're

814
00:31:13,110 --> 00:31:10,000
referring to

815
00:31:15,669 --> 00:31:13,120
is that this was a cycle of civilization

816
00:31:17,590 --> 00:31:15,679
represented by quebecole tepe and the

817
00:31:20,070 --> 00:31:17,600
sphinx and other sites

818
00:31:20,630 --> 00:31:20,080
that ended with the end of the last ice

819
00:31:23,669 --> 00:31:20,640
age

820
00:31:26,470 --> 00:31:23,679
which is separated by six thousand years

821
00:31:27,190 --> 00:31:26,480
seven six to seven thousand years of

822
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:27,200
what i call

823
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:31,039
solar induced dark age or siddha before

824
00:31:37,590 --> 00:31:34,880
civilization re-emerged so that's the

825
00:31:39,590 --> 00:31:37,600
name of the documentary civilization

826
00:31:40,789 --> 00:31:39,600
before civilization and the rationale

827
00:31:45,029 --> 00:31:40,799
behind it

828
00:31:48,070 --> 00:31:45,039
so beckley tepe represents that

829
00:31:50,789 --> 00:31:48,080
earlier cycle of civilization and when i

830
00:31:52,470 --> 00:31:50,799
first visited quebec lee tepe and that

831
00:31:53,430 --> 00:31:52,480
was a wonderful trip because john

832
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:53,440
anthony west

833
00:31:59,990 --> 00:31:57,120
came with katie and i we saw the site

834
00:32:02,389 --> 00:32:00,000
it was basically you know you went out

835
00:32:04,630 --> 00:32:02,399
into the fields there and you walked up

836
00:32:07,509 --> 00:32:04,640
to it and there were no facilities

837
00:32:10,310 --> 00:32:07,519
modern facilities that type of thing

838
00:32:11,830 --> 00:32:10,320
uh klaus schmidt was still alive he

839
00:32:14,310 --> 00:32:11,840
showed us this site he

840
00:32:16,310 --> 00:32:14,320
was actually just leaving in the sense

841
00:32:18,549 --> 00:32:16,320
of they were shutting down for

842
00:32:19,750 --> 00:32:18,559
the hot season of the summer and we got

843
00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:19,760
there i think was late

844
00:32:23,990 --> 00:32:22,960
may and uh the last day or so when they

845
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:24,000
were actually still

846
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:27,279
on site so he showed us around

847
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:29,919
uh briefly and it was wonderful you

848
00:32:35,830 --> 00:32:32,799
could just look out over this site

849
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:35,840
it was not as quite as excavated as as

850
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,720
it is now

851
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:38,640
but you could look over it it was not

852
00:32:41,909 --> 00:32:40,080
covered over

853
00:32:43,669 --> 00:32:41,919
over the years since i've been going

854
00:32:45,909 --> 00:32:43,679
back and forth they've put

855
00:32:47,830 --> 00:32:45,919
different types of coverings over it

856
00:32:49,750 --> 00:32:47,840
they had at one point

857
00:32:51,430 --> 00:32:49,760
some of the pillars actually boxed up

858
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:51,440
with crates

859
00:32:59,590 --> 00:32:54,960
to protect them they had a very low

860
00:33:02,870 --> 00:32:59,600
at one point sort of wood and metal

861
00:33:06,070 --> 00:33:02,880
roof over it now what they have

862
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:06,080
is actually a quite beautiful sort of

863
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:09,440
tent like structure over it if i could

864
00:33:13,990 --> 00:33:11,200
describe it that way

865
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:14,000
uh it's open on the sides but covers it

866
00:33:18,789 --> 00:33:15,120
over

867
00:33:20,070 --> 00:33:18,799
on the top to protect it from the sun to

868
00:33:22,710 --> 00:33:20,080
a certain extent to

869
00:33:25,029 --> 00:33:22,720
protect it from rain to a certain extent

870
00:33:28,149 --> 00:33:25,039
and they've built a very elaborate

871
00:33:31,350 --> 00:33:28,159
visit this visitor center for it

872
00:33:32,789 --> 00:33:31,360
that type of thing and katie is actually

873
00:33:35,909 --> 00:33:32,799
reminding me

874
00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:35,919
that if people go to

875
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:38,960
uh my website and they look at what's

876
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:41,039
called the siddha article

877
00:33:44,950 --> 00:33:43,360
and scroll down they can see some

878
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:44,960
pictures that we took

879
00:33:49,509 --> 00:33:47,760
in january of the modern covering so

880
00:33:51,430 --> 00:33:49,519
they've done a very nice job with it

881
00:33:53,110 --> 00:33:51,440
because they know

882
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:53,120
that they have something very very

883
00:33:56,470 --> 00:33:54,799
important there and as i said they now

884
00:33:58,630 --> 00:33:56,480
have facilities you can actually use the

885
00:34:00,389 --> 00:33:58,640
toilet that type of thing when you go to

886
00:34:02,870 --> 00:34:00,399
visit it

887
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:02,880
and they have not turned it into an

888
00:34:09,270 --> 00:34:05,760
amusement park type of situation

889
00:34:12,950 --> 00:34:09,280
which i think is good uh

890
00:34:16,069 --> 00:34:12,960
some ancient sites they end up i think

891
00:34:18,069 --> 00:34:16,079
overdoing it as far as

892
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:18,079
the tourist aspect and it's still an

893
00:34:21,430 --> 00:34:19,440
ongoing

894
00:34:23,669 --> 00:34:21,440
site archaeological site that's being

895
00:34:26,230 --> 00:34:23,679
excavated to this day

896
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:26,240
a very small percentage of it only a

897
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:27,679
very small percentage

898
00:34:31,909 --> 00:34:30,320
has been excavated so something that i

899
00:34:34,310 --> 00:34:31,919
think we all need to

900
00:34:35,869 --> 00:34:34,320
keep in mind with any type of

901
00:34:38,470 --> 00:34:35,879
preliminary

902
00:34:40,629 --> 00:34:38,480
interpretations of this incredibly

903
00:34:43,669 --> 00:34:40,639
sophisticated site

904
00:34:46,310 --> 00:34:43,679
is that it is um not

905
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:46,320
fully excavated in fact it's not even

906
00:34:50,069 --> 00:34:47,040
half

907
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:50,079
excavates not even a quarter to this day

908
00:34:54,710 --> 00:34:51,280
a lot of people

909
00:34:55,589 --> 00:34:54,720
estimate based on the geophysics of how

910
00:34:58,790 --> 00:34:55,599
many

911
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:58,800
circles of

912
00:35:05,910 --> 00:35:02,079
these megalithic stones might be

913
00:35:09,109 --> 00:35:05,920
there based on geophysics that only

914
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:09,119
five percent or so may have been

915
00:35:13,030 --> 00:35:09,920
uncovered

916
00:35:14,390 --> 00:35:13,040
and you look out from gobekli tepe and

917
00:35:17,910 --> 00:35:14,400
there are all these other

918
00:35:19,670 --> 00:35:17,920
hills around there which

919
00:35:21,109 --> 00:35:19,680
cloud schmidt i remember him saying this

920
00:35:23,430 --> 00:35:21,119
very distinctly he

921
00:35:26,069 --> 00:35:23,440
thought that many of those if not all of

922
00:35:28,550 --> 00:35:26,079
them were other artificial

923
00:35:29,589 --> 00:35:28,560
low mountains if you would low hills and

924
00:35:32,310 --> 00:35:29,599
mountains

925
00:35:32,790 --> 00:35:32,320
that have sites under them and so far

926
00:35:35,270 --> 00:35:32,800
it's

927
00:35:36,230 --> 00:35:35,280
been demonstrated with uh preliminary

928
00:35:39,030 --> 00:35:36,240
studies that

929
00:35:39,510 --> 00:35:39,040
he may well be right so we're talking a

930
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:39,520
huge

931
00:35:46,310 --> 00:35:43,119
complex going back 12 000 years and

932
00:35:49,349 --> 00:35:46,320
it it on so many levels just boggles

933
00:35:52,470 --> 00:35:49,359
the mind well with go backly tapi

934
00:35:54,069 --> 00:35:52,480
and we're let's let's actually start the

935
00:35:57,349 --> 00:35:54,079
conversation here

936
00:36:00,710 --> 00:35:57,359
it's location is modern-day turkey but

937
00:36:04,310 --> 00:36:00,720
historically speaking it is

938
00:36:05,829 --> 00:36:04,320
uh located in the middle of the armenian

939
00:36:09,109 --> 00:36:05,839
highlands

940
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:09,119
and which stretched uh uh

941
00:36:13,109 --> 00:36:12,320
you know from c to c right from uh east

942
00:36:16,870 --> 00:36:13,119
to west

943
00:36:17,670 --> 00:36:16,880
across a huge swath right there of the

944
00:36:21,030 --> 00:36:17,680
middle east

945
00:36:21,589 --> 00:36:21,040
and and you know bordering uh to the

946
00:36:25,030 --> 00:36:21,599
north

947
00:36:27,750 --> 00:36:25,040
uh which would be uh uh

948
00:36:29,109 --> 00:36:27,760
another section of what is now

949
00:36:31,750 --> 00:36:29,119
modern-day russia

950
00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:31,760
or or the soviet union and and even

951
00:36:35,870 --> 00:36:32,640
china

952
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:35,880
but that being said um

953
00:36:42,150 --> 00:36:38,880
historically that is the foundation

954
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:42,160
and everybody wants to know who built it

955
00:36:45,990 --> 00:36:43,599
well we have to look at the

956
00:36:49,030 --> 00:36:46,000
civilizations that were there and

957
00:36:51,829 --> 00:36:49,040
what has resulted since then over the

958
00:36:54,310 --> 00:36:51,839
last 11 000 years don't we

959
00:36:56,310 --> 00:36:54,320
yeah and see i think you bring up a

960
00:37:00,550 --> 00:36:56,320
couple of interesting points

961
00:37:01,349 --> 00:37:00,560
historically i don't disagree with you

962
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:01,359
that that was

963
00:37:07,349 --> 00:37:04,560
part of that region but then

964
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:07,359
historically so many other people have

965
00:37:10,550 --> 00:37:08,800
tried to claim it too

966
00:37:11,990 --> 00:37:10,560
just so that everyone knows and i think

967
00:37:15,030 --> 00:37:12,000
your audience knows

968
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:15,040
go beckley tepe is in modern turkey of

969
00:37:22,069 --> 00:37:17,359
course and quebecois duppy is a turkish

970
00:37:24,230 --> 00:37:22,079
name for it uh the armenians tend to

971
00:37:25,750 --> 00:37:24,240
use a different term for it they tend to

972
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:25,760
call it portisar

973
00:37:29,670 --> 00:37:28,160
if i'm pronouncing that correctly but

974
00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:29,680
essentially the two terms mean

975
00:37:37,109 --> 00:37:33,680
essentially the same thing uh can be

976
00:37:39,829 --> 00:37:37,119
translated as naval or

977
00:37:40,790 --> 00:37:39,839
hill with a naval referring to it as

978
00:37:43,910 --> 00:37:40,800
being some kind of

979
00:37:46,950 --> 00:37:43,920
center or origin very similar to

980
00:37:49,430 --> 00:37:46,960
the umphalas at delphi the greek concept

981
00:37:54,150 --> 00:37:49,440
of the naval or the center of the

982
00:37:56,069 --> 00:37:54,160
uh world so it's carried a lot of uh

983
00:37:57,750 --> 00:37:56,079
should we say sacred religious

984
00:38:01,030 --> 00:37:57,760
significance for people

985
00:38:03,430 --> 00:38:01,040
in recent times but i want to get back

986
00:38:05,109 --> 00:38:03,440
to and this ties in with the

987
00:38:06,790 --> 00:38:05,119
documentary and i'm not trying to push

988
00:38:08,630 --> 00:38:06,800
the documentary right now although i'd

989
00:38:10,069 --> 00:38:08,640
love people to contribute to it because

990
00:38:11,910 --> 00:38:10,079
we need to raise money for the

991
00:38:13,829 --> 00:38:11,920
educational documentary and it's a

992
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:13,839
non-profit that we're doing it

993
00:38:19,190 --> 00:38:16,960
with oracle oracle for

994
00:38:20,390 --> 00:38:19,200
oracle's organization for the research

995
00:38:22,310 --> 00:38:20,400
of ancient cultures

996
00:38:23,510 --> 00:38:22,320
but getting back to the documentary's

997
00:38:26,550 --> 00:38:23,520
title it's

998
00:38:29,030 --> 00:38:26,560
civilization before civilization so

999
00:38:31,589 --> 00:38:29,040
everything that most people think in

1000
00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:31,599
terms of armenians are turkish or

1001
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:32,800
kurdistan or

1002
00:38:41,190 --> 00:38:37,040
syria and i was about to say

1003
00:38:42,069 --> 00:38:41,200
quebec tepe is very close to the syrian

1004
00:38:45,349 --> 00:38:42,079
border

1005
00:38:46,950 --> 00:38:45,359
when you're at the beckley tepe on

1006
00:38:48,550 --> 00:38:46,960
uh if you know what you're looking at

1007
00:38:50,950 --> 00:38:48,560
you can see structures

1008
00:38:52,550 --> 00:38:50,960
in syria when you look south that's how

1009
00:38:55,430 --> 00:38:52,560
close it is to the modern

1010
00:38:56,390 --> 00:38:55,440
syrian border so it's in this part of

1011
00:38:59,670 --> 00:38:56,400
the world

1012
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:59,680
that so many different civilizations

1013
00:39:02,950 --> 00:39:00,000
have

1014
00:39:05,589 --> 00:39:02,960
tried to claim over time and you know

1015
00:39:06,310 --> 00:39:05,599
they've invaded and re-invaded et cetera

1016
00:39:08,150 --> 00:39:06,320
et cetera

1017
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:08,160
so i'm not jimmy i'm not denying

1018
00:39:10,870 --> 00:39:09,760
anything you just said because you were

1019
00:39:13,190 --> 00:39:10,880
absolutely correct

1020
00:39:14,550 --> 00:39:13,200
but the point i really want to make is

1021
00:39:16,510 --> 00:39:14,560
that this

1022
00:39:17,910 --> 00:39:16,520
all of those ethnic groups and

1023
00:39:21,510 --> 00:39:17,920
civilizations

1024
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:21,520
are from the round of civilization the

1025
00:39:26,150 --> 00:39:22,960
current civilization

1026
00:39:29,349 --> 00:39:26,160
as i see it as a geologist the last

1027
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:29,359
5 000 years when we then push

1028
00:39:32,790 --> 00:39:32,400
back to before the end of the last ice

1029
00:39:36,310 --> 00:39:32,800
age

1030
00:39:37,990 --> 00:39:36,320
another another 7 000 years

1031
00:39:39,910 --> 00:39:38,000
i don't know what those people called

1032
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:39,920
themselves i don't know

1033
00:39:45,230 --> 00:39:42,880
what terms they were thinking in in

1034
00:39:47,670 --> 00:39:45,240
terms of their ethnicity or their

1035
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:47,680
nationality that type of thing

1036
00:39:53,829 --> 00:39:50,800
and i do think there's a lot of evidence

1037
00:39:56,630 --> 00:39:53,839
that some of the traditions carried on

1038
00:39:57,190 --> 00:39:56,640
through time carried through that dark

1039
00:39:59,990 --> 00:39:57,200
period

1040
00:40:01,109 --> 00:40:00,000
from the end of the last ice age in the

1041
00:40:03,950 --> 00:40:01,119
fall of the

1042
00:40:06,630 --> 00:40:03,960
earlier cycle of civilization that ended

1043
00:40:08,950 --> 00:40:06,640
9700 bc or thereabouts

1044
00:40:10,150 --> 00:40:08,960
there were traditions there were

1045
00:40:12,710 --> 00:40:10,160
glimmerings there were

1046
00:40:14,069 --> 00:40:12,720
things that were carried through during

1047
00:40:17,829 --> 00:40:14,079
that

1048
00:40:21,670 --> 00:40:17,839
siddha

1049
00:40:23,910 --> 00:40:21,680
and resparked civilization

1050
00:40:26,390 --> 00:40:23,920
in northern mesopotamia which is what

1051
00:40:29,270 --> 00:40:26,400
we're talking about

1052
00:40:30,230 --> 00:40:29,280
and then it spread and i agree with all

1053
00:40:32,230 --> 00:40:30,240
that

1054
00:40:34,150 --> 00:40:32,240
but when you start pushing the

1055
00:40:36,470 --> 00:40:34,160
boundaries back to the end of the last

1056
00:40:38,230 --> 00:40:36,480
ice stage i don't know who they were or

1057
00:40:40,150 --> 00:40:38,240
what they were i have the same issue

1058
00:40:40,870 --> 00:40:40,160
with egypt are not the same issue people

1059
00:40:43,349 --> 00:40:40,880
had the same

1060
00:40:45,349 --> 00:40:43,359
issue with me that the sphinx the

1061
00:40:48,069 --> 00:40:45,359
origins of the sphinx and it was a

1062
00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:48,079
lioness not a sphinx originally

1063
00:40:51,990 --> 00:40:51,280
going back to the end of the last ice

1064
00:40:54,870 --> 00:40:52,000
age and just

1065
00:40:56,390 --> 00:40:54,880
before that uh people have said oh when

1066
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:56,400
you know were they egyptians or were

1067
00:40:59,109 --> 00:40:56,880
they not

1068
00:41:00,790 --> 00:40:59,119
egyptians well they were in what we now

1069
00:41:03,349 --> 00:41:00,800
call egypt but

1070
00:41:04,230 --> 00:41:03,359
what terms were they using then what

1071
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:04,240
boundaries

1072
00:41:11,349 --> 00:41:07,440
were they using i just don't know

1073
00:41:14,069 --> 00:41:11,359
so so yeah we get it it's interesting

1074
00:41:15,109 --> 00:41:14,079
i think when we trace these things back

1075
00:41:17,670 --> 00:41:15,119
it's

1076
00:41:19,990 --> 00:41:17,680
i like to think of it as we want to

1077
00:41:23,270 --> 00:41:20,000
unify ourselves that this is a global

1078
00:41:26,550 --> 00:41:23,280
heritage that's important to all of us

1079
00:41:29,589 --> 00:41:26,560
when we start to unpack uh

1080
00:41:31,349 --> 00:41:29,599
the symbolism that is all over go back

1081
00:41:33,430 --> 00:41:31,359
lee taffy one of the greatest parts

1082
00:41:37,109 --> 00:41:33,440
about gobekli tepe is

1083
00:41:40,069 --> 00:41:37,119
there is stuff there that is

1084
00:41:40,950 --> 00:41:40,079
saying something to us today we mean

1085
00:41:43,990 --> 00:41:40,960
absolutely

1086
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:44,000
we may not fully understand it today but

1087
00:41:48,950 --> 00:41:45,359
that symbolism

1088
00:41:50,950 --> 00:41:48,960
has radiated out uh throughout the world

1089
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,960
you can find the same symbolism all

1090
00:41:55,190 --> 00:41:52,400
around the planet

1091
00:41:56,309 --> 00:41:55,200
and it all you know the origins the

1092
00:41:59,430 --> 00:41:56,319
progenitor for

1093
00:42:02,630 --> 00:41:59,440
a lot of this uh certainly appears to be

1094
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:02,640
gobekli tepe and that region

1095
00:42:07,910 --> 00:42:05,760
and it would indicate a strong

1096
00:42:08,950 --> 00:42:07,920
organization and knowledge of a lot of

1097
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:08,960
different things

1098
00:42:15,109 --> 00:42:12,160
not only geometry and engineering

1099
00:42:16,309 --> 00:42:15,119
and quarrying and construction but its

1100
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:16,319
cosmology

1101
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:19,599
and some type of belief system call it a

1102
00:42:25,030 --> 00:42:20,960
religion

1103
00:42:28,550 --> 00:42:25,040
or or what have you uh it seemed to be

1104
00:42:30,710 --> 00:42:28,560
very strong in uh intelligence

1105
00:42:31,990 --> 00:42:30,720
which stone age man wasn't supposed to

1106
00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:32,000
have right

1107
00:42:35,990 --> 00:42:35,680
oh i i think that we have um when i say

1108
00:42:38,790 --> 00:42:36,000
we

1109
00:42:39,829 --> 00:42:38,800
not you and i and people listening to

1110
00:42:42,550 --> 00:42:39,839
this show

1111
00:42:43,349 --> 00:42:42,560
but i'm talking we in the sense of the

1112
00:42:46,390 --> 00:42:43,359
broad

1113
00:42:49,990 --> 00:42:46,400
you know we academia

1114
00:42:51,030 --> 00:42:50,000
has so long and i have been opposing

1115
00:42:54,150 --> 00:42:51,040
this now for

1116
00:42:58,870 --> 00:42:54,160
decades as you know personally

1117
00:43:02,069 --> 00:42:58,880
my story that they have underestimated

1118
00:43:05,349 --> 00:43:02,079
the intelligence the sophistication

1119
00:43:08,470 --> 00:43:05,359
the abilities of people

1120
00:43:09,430 --> 00:43:08,480
10 12 000 more years ago and you're

1121
00:43:12,870 --> 00:43:09,440
absolutely

1122
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:12,880
right we see in the region of quebec

1123
00:43:20,230 --> 00:43:13,440
tepe

1124
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:20,240
learning of knowledge of activity that

1125
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:20,800
is so

1126
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:24,000
incredibly sophisticated and we see

1127
00:43:28,309 --> 00:43:27,200
remnants of that and symbolism from it

1128
00:43:30,710 --> 00:43:28,319
etc

1129
00:43:32,630 --> 00:43:30,720
and i think even spreading throughout

1130
00:43:34,550 --> 00:43:32,640
not just the middle east but spreading

1131
00:43:36,309 --> 00:43:34,560
throughout the world from it

1132
00:43:37,910 --> 00:43:36,319
it's interesting when people talk about

1133
00:43:40,950 --> 00:43:37,920
this and talk about

1134
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:40,960
centers and origins and things going

1135
00:43:45,270 --> 00:43:41,760
back

1136
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:45,280
so far in time the classic response from

1137
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:46,800
the academics

1138
00:43:51,750 --> 00:43:50,000
has been that it can't be that that goes

1139
00:43:54,470 --> 00:43:51,760
against conventional thinking it goes

1140
00:43:56,550 --> 00:43:54,480
against the paradigm i

1141
00:43:59,030 --> 00:43:56,560
interviewed or we interviewed i should

1142
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,040
say for our documentary

1143
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:01,920
uh professor at harvard in february just

1144
00:44:06,710 --> 00:44:03,680
before covet hit

1145
00:44:09,670 --> 00:44:06,720
uh as soon as we got back from from

1146
00:44:09,910 --> 00:44:09,680
gobekli tepe about these things his name

1147
00:44:12,870 --> 00:44:09,920
is

1148
00:44:14,309 --> 00:44:12,880
uh professor michael whitsell and he

1149
00:44:16,069 --> 00:44:14,319
wrote a book called

1150
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:16,079
on the let me try get right on the

1151
00:44:21,309 --> 00:44:18,400
origins of the world's mythologies

1152
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:21,319
and on the origins of the world's

1153
00:44:25,750 --> 00:44:22,560
mythologies

1154
00:44:28,390 --> 00:44:25,760
and one thing he contends and i'd come

1155
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:28,400
to the same conclusion independently

1156
00:44:33,670 --> 00:44:31,440
but he really laid it out he's a

1157
00:44:34,710 --> 00:44:33,680
that's his field looking at those types

1158
00:44:37,829 --> 00:44:34,720
of things and looking at

1159
00:44:41,069 --> 00:44:37,839
sanskrit et cetera et cetera uh

1160
00:44:44,390 --> 00:44:41,079
how you can trace back core

1161
00:44:45,030 --> 00:44:44,400
commonalities to well before the end of

1162
00:44:48,309 --> 00:44:45,040
the last

1163
00:44:50,630 --> 00:44:48,319
ice age and that

1164
00:44:53,190 --> 00:44:50,640
it didn't all just happened in the last

1165
00:44:55,750 --> 00:44:53,200
5000 years but you can trace back

1166
00:44:57,750 --> 00:44:55,760
all these things to an early period when

1167
00:44:59,430 --> 00:44:57,760
you look at the legends and myths or

1168
00:45:01,109 --> 00:44:59,440
whatever you want to call them

1169
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:01,119
many of which i think are not so

1170
00:45:03,990 --> 00:45:02,960
mythical they're based on a real

1171
00:45:06,550 --> 00:45:04,000
foundation

1172
00:45:08,550 --> 00:45:06,560
and then what you were just saying i 100

1173
00:45:10,470 --> 00:45:08,560
agree with the symbolism

1174
00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:10,480
that you can trace back and then you can

1175
00:45:14,790 --> 00:45:11,680
see remnants

1176
00:45:19,030 --> 00:45:14,800
of it right up to the modern day or

1177
00:45:20,950 --> 00:45:19,040
the um uh you know continuations of

1178
00:45:21,349 --> 00:45:20,960
these things right up to the modern day

1179
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:21,359
so

1180
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:26,240
i want to point out that when you go to

1181
00:45:30,470 --> 00:45:27,520
sean leofa or

1182
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:30,480
or irfa as it's known the city of urfa

1183
00:45:35,589 --> 00:45:32,240
there's a beautiful museum

1184
00:45:39,910 --> 00:45:35,599
there incredible modern museum

1185
00:45:40,910 --> 00:45:39,920
that has artifacts from quebecois tepe

1186
00:45:43,589 --> 00:45:40,920
and they also have

1187
00:45:44,870 --> 00:45:43,599
dioramas where they reconstruct what the

1188
00:45:46,309 --> 00:45:44,880
gobekli tepe

1189
00:45:49,190 --> 00:45:46,319
people were doing you know they show

1190
00:45:50,710 --> 00:45:49,200
some of them cutting out the pillars

1191
00:45:53,750 --> 00:45:50,720
that type of thing

1192
00:45:56,870 --> 00:45:53,760
right and they make them look like these

1193
00:45:58,950 --> 00:45:56,880
primitive cavemen

1194
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:58,960
it's really and i'm not trying to make

1195
00:46:03,349 --> 00:46:00,480
fun of anyone but it's just

1196
00:46:04,230 --> 00:46:03,359
not the way i see it um so they sort of

1197
00:46:07,589 --> 00:46:04,240
dumbed them down

1198
00:46:09,829 --> 00:46:07,599
and they call them hunters gatherers uh

1199
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:09,839
on what basis i can talk about on what

1200
00:46:15,510 --> 00:46:11,760
basis they say that

1201
00:46:19,349 --> 00:46:15,520
but i disagree with it and they

1202
00:46:22,550 --> 00:46:19,359
have a tendency to sort of

1203
00:46:23,030 --> 00:46:22,560
play up that they were primitive that

1204
00:46:26,710 --> 00:46:23,040
they

1205
00:46:27,349 --> 00:46:26,720
fit what people the academics have

1206
00:46:30,150 --> 00:46:27,359
wanted to

1207
00:46:32,790 --> 00:46:30,160
make of them in the past yet when you

1208
00:46:34,790 --> 00:46:32,800
look at the quebecoli tepe sculptures

1209
00:46:36,550 --> 00:46:34,800
or you look at this sculpture that was

1210
00:46:40,630 --> 00:46:36,560
found in urfa during

1211
00:46:43,270 --> 00:46:40,640
a construction project that is a human

1212
00:46:43,829 --> 00:46:43,280
life-size human statue going back to

1213
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:43,839
quebec

1214
00:46:48,309 --> 00:46:46,079
tepe times 12 000 years ago it's

1215
00:46:50,710 --> 00:46:48,319
commonly called urfa man

1216
00:46:52,230 --> 00:46:50,720
and there's actually you can see it on

1217
00:46:55,190 --> 00:46:52,240
the little trailer there

1218
00:46:56,069 --> 00:46:55,200
i mean he's incredibly sophisticated

1219
00:46:59,349 --> 00:46:56,079
he's not

1220
00:47:01,510 --> 00:46:59,359
some hairy you know cavemen and this is

1221
00:47:03,750 --> 00:47:01,520
how they depicted themselves they were

1222
00:47:05,829 --> 00:47:03,760
carving sculptures of themselves and

1223
00:47:06,630 --> 00:47:05,839
it's very different what they're telling

1224
00:47:09,430 --> 00:47:06,640
us

1225
00:47:10,069 --> 00:47:09,440
bluntly and directly with what has

1226
00:47:13,349 --> 00:47:10,079
survived

1227
00:47:15,990 --> 00:47:13,359
is very different than the and

1228
00:47:17,670 --> 00:47:16,000
academic preconceptions that certain

1229
00:47:20,150 --> 00:47:17,680
people won't let go of

1230
00:47:21,430 --> 00:47:20,160
no they won't the dogma is is so

1231
00:47:23,910 --> 00:47:21,440
entrenched

1232
00:47:24,870 --> 00:47:23,920
and here is here's what is so

1233
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:24,880
interesting

1234
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:26,480
i mean they're going to have to change

1235
00:47:29,109 --> 00:47:27,920
those dioramas

1236
00:47:30,470 --> 00:47:29,119
all right they're going to have to

1237
00:47:31,109 --> 00:47:30,480
eventually you're going to have to do

1238
00:47:34,710 --> 00:47:31,119
they're just

1239
00:47:37,750 --> 00:47:34,720
crazy well we just the recent uh

1240
00:47:38,470 --> 00:47:37,760
research that uh was released a couple

1241
00:47:41,510 --> 00:47:38,480
of weeks ago

1242
00:47:44,549 --> 00:47:41,520
very excited about this uh from

1243
00:47:46,630 --> 00:47:44,559
israel it's stating quite clearly

1244
00:47:49,109 --> 00:47:46,640
after they've run the computer

1245
00:47:52,230 --> 00:47:49,119
simulations on the constructions of

1246
00:47:56,390 --> 00:47:52,240
gobekli tepe that a

1247
00:47:59,430 --> 00:47:56,400
thorough uh understanding of geometry

1248
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:59,440
was used in the construction of gobekli

1249
00:48:03,829 --> 00:48:00,559
tepe

1250
00:48:08,790 --> 00:48:03,839
the the the cavemen

1251
00:48:16,150 --> 00:48:12,710
illiterate cavemen are not planning

1252
00:48:20,030 --> 00:48:16,160
these incredible megalithic structures

1253
00:48:22,870 --> 00:48:20,040
with precise layouts um

1254
00:48:25,910 --> 00:48:22,880
orientations etc etc

1255
00:48:29,190 --> 00:48:25,920
in fact this this is to me so much

1256
00:48:31,670 --> 00:48:29,200
uh harking back to the arguments about

1257
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:31,680
the giza plateau it used to

1258
00:48:36,230 --> 00:48:34,000
you know the classic view back in the

1259
00:48:37,349 --> 00:48:36,240
19th century the giza plateau with the

1260
00:48:39,190 --> 00:48:37,359
great pyramid

1261
00:48:40,870 --> 00:48:39,200
and the sphinx and the second pyramid

1262
00:48:42,549 --> 00:48:40,880
third pyramid is that you know it's just

1263
00:48:43,589 --> 00:48:42,559
a bunch of primitives they throw up a

1264
00:48:46,150 --> 00:48:43,599
pyramid here

1265
00:48:48,309 --> 00:48:46,160
they throw up a pyramid there randomly

1266
00:48:50,069 --> 00:48:48,319
there's no real relationship between

1267
00:48:52,950 --> 00:48:50,079
them etc etc

1268
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:52,960
and in my opinion that has been so

1269
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:55,599
thoroughly disproven including

1270
00:49:00,150 --> 00:48:57,599
my colleague of course robert buvall

1271
00:49:02,069 --> 00:49:00,160
pointing out the orion correlations

1272
00:49:04,790 --> 00:49:02,079
and as a side note we have orion

1273
00:49:08,549 --> 00:49:04,800
correlations at quebec latepay too

1274
00:49:10,309 --> 00:49:08,559
from the same period but of course

1275
00:49:13,109 --> 00:49:10,319
i think most of your audience would know

1276
00:49:17,109 --> 00:49:13,119
this found orion correlations

1277
00:49:18,630 --> 00:49:17,119
that fit best about 10 500 bc so the end

1278
00:49:21,829 --> 00:49:18,640
of the last ice age

1279
00:49:23,990 --> 00:49:21,839
so at giza and i'm just playing this in

1280
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:24,000
historical context there was all these

1281
00:49:28,230 --> 00:49:25,520
arguments about whether there was a

1282
00:49:32,230 --> 00:49:28,240
grand master plan for giza

1283
00:49:33,349 --> 00:49:32,240
and i think it's indisputable now that

1284
00:49:35,430 --> 00:49:33,359
there was

1285
00:49:37,349 --> 00:49:35,440
and now we're seeing the evidence which

1286
00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:37,359
i never doubt it to be honest

1287
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:40,000
that yes things that gobekli tepe were

1288
00:49:44,069 --> 00:49:42,000
planned were planned in advance

1289
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:44,079
when they built one structure and then

1290
00:49:47,990 --> 00:49:46,079
built another structure they looked at

1291
00:49:51,430 --> 00:49:48,000
the first structure they built and they

1292
00:49:54,470 --> 00:49:51,440
oriented things relative to it etc

1293
00:49:55,829 --> 00:49:54,480
uh but yeah this is not primitive and

1294
00:49:58,950 --> 00:49:55,839
also i

1295
00:49:59,990 --> 00:49:58,960
think you have to assume or have to

1296
00:50:02,549 --> 00:50:00,000
understand that they

1297
00:50:03,589 --> 00:50:02,559
had to be passing down information and

1298
00:50:08,549 --> 00:50:03,599
plans

1299
00:50:10,230 --> 00:50:08,559
etc and this implies even if we did have

1300
00:50:11,990 --> 00:50:10,240
even if we did not have evidence

1301
00:50:13,990 --> 00:50:12,000
otherwise which we do have evidence

1302
00:50:15,109 --> 00:50:14,000
otherwise that they would have been

1303
00:50:17,270 --> 00:50:15,119
literate they had

1304
00:50:19,030 --> 00:50:17,280
writing they had some kind of way of

1305
00:50:21,510 --> 00:50:19,040
recording things

1306
00:50:22,230 --> 00:50:21,520
yes you can remember a lot and passed

1307
00:50:25,270 --> 00:50:22,240
down a lot

1308
00:50:28,150 --> 00:50:25,280
verbally that has been demonstrated but

1309
00:50:29,910 --> 00:50:28,160
i have no doubt there was a lot more to

1310
00:50:31,990 --> 00:50:29,920
the quebec lee tepe people they were a

1311
00:50:34,950 --> 00:50:32,000
lot more sophisticated than

1312
00:50:36,069 --> 00:50:34,960
my academic colleagues have ever wanted

1313
00:50:39,030 --> 00:50:36,079
to admit

1314
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:39,040
now how uh we're gonna head towards a

1315
00:50:44,230 --> 00:50:40,079
break here

1316
00:50:47,589 --> 00:50:44,240
uh but how advanced

1317
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:47,599
of uh civilization are we

1318
00:50:53,190 --> 00:50:50,559
are we actually talking about here i

1319
00:50:55,589 --> 00:50:53,200
mean how advanced

1320
00:50:57,030 --> 00:50:55,599
because we're talking about cosmology

1321
00:50:57,750 --> 00:50:57,040
we're talking about an understanding of

1322
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:57,760
the stars

1323
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:00,480
and zodiac and of course uh the

1324
00:51:05,589 --> 00:51:01,760
engineering aspects

1325
00:51:07,829 --> 00:51:05,599
but we have uh agriculture organization

1326
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,839
some type of religion or belief system

1327
00:51:10,950 --> 00:51:08,960
was in place

1328
00:51:12,390 --> 00:51:10,960
they understood governments and it

1329
00:51:15,109 --> 00:51:12,400
appears that math

1330
00:51:16,790 --> 00:51:15,119
came in very strong too as well all of

1331
00:51:17,990 --> 00:51:16,800
these things weren't supposed to happen

1332
00:51:21,750 --> 00:51:18,000
for another 7

1333
00:51:21,990 --> 00:51:21,760
000 years clearly they were how advanced

1334
00:51:25,109 --> 00:51:22,000
are

1335
00:51:26,790 --> 00:51:25,119
we talking here is it a separate is it a

1336
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:26,800
separate situation that came

1337
00:51:32,710 --> 00:51:30,400
later what do you mean by separation

1338
00:51:34,549 --> 00:51:32,720
it's a separate civilization that was

1339
00:51:37,829 --> 00:51:34,559
already there and advanced

1340
00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:37,839
and and upright and running and then

1341
00:51:40,150 --> 00:51:39,520
possibly went away and then was

1342
00:51:43,109 --> 00:51:40,160
kick-started

1343
00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:43,119
again later yeah yeah yeah no i think um

1344
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:43,760
i we

1345
00:51:49,990 --> 00:51:48,240
we okay at quebec lee tepe i think we

1346
00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:50,000
have at its height just before

1347
00:51:54,630 --> 00:51:53,760
it was wiped out by the devastated by

1348
00:51:59,510 --> 00:51:54,640
the

1349
00:52:02,069 --> 00:51:59,520
and we cannot underestimate

1350
00:52:03,030 --> 00:52:02,079
how bad the events at the end of the

1351
00:52:05,510 --> 00:52:03,040
last ice age

1352
00:52:06,390 --> 00:52:05,520
were with a huge solar outburst and

1353
00:52:09,589 --> 00:52:06,400
temperature

1354
00:52:12,870 --> 00:52:09,599
changes climate changes radiation

1355
00:52:14,230 --> 00:52:12,880
incredible flooding because of all the

1356
00:52:15,829 --> 00:52:14,240
moisture that was put into the

1357
00:52:17,990 --> 00:52:15,839
atmosphere rising sea level i mean it

1358
00:52:20,950 --> 00:52:18,000
was a devastating time

1359
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:20,960
but before that just before that we had

1360
00:52:24,470 --> 00:52:22,000
an incredible

1361
00:52:25,750 --> 00:52:24,480
flourishing civilization and we have

1362
00:52:27,829 --> 00:52:25,760
that represented at

1363
00:52:29,670 --> 00:52:27,839
beckley tepe and i think that they were

1364
00:52:31,910 --> 00:52:29,680
incredibly advanced all the things that

1365
00:52:33,829 --> 00:52:31,920
you just said i would add literacy and

1366
00:52:34,630 --> 00:52:33,839
we should talk about that maybe after

1367
00:52:36,790 --> 00:52:34,640
the break

1368
00:52:38,710 --> 00:52:36,800
that they were literate i think they

1369
00:52:41,190 --> 00:52:38,720
actually knew what we would now call

1370
00:52:43,589 --> 00:52:41,200
plasma physics plasma physics talking

1371
00:52:46,470 --> 00:52:43,599
about electrically charged particles

1372
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:46,480
um that come off of the sun for instance

1373
00:52:50,710 --> 00:52:49,040
during solar eruptions etc which

1374
00:52:53,430 --> 00:52:50,720
frankly would have been important to

1375
00:52:56,230 --> 00:52:53,440
them so this is not a surprise to me

1376
00:52:56,470 --> 00:52:56,240
petty would have wanted to learn about

1377
00:52:58,630 --> 00:52:56,480
it

1378
00:53:00,470 --> 00:52:58,640
and understand things maybe from even

1379
00:53:01,990 --> 00:53:00,480
practical experience of things that they

1380
00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:02,000
had experienced

1381
00:53:06,390 --> 00:53:04,160
um through their civilization i think

1382
00:53:08,150 --> 00:53:06,400
they were keeping very very accurate

1383
00:53:10,710 --> 00:53:08,160
records of things

1384
00:53:11,270 --> 00:53:10,720
uh you know i do think sometimes it's

1385
00:53:14,150 --> 00:53:11,280
worth

1386
00:53:15,430 --> 00:53:14,160
thinking in terms of analogies if our

1387
00:53:18,069 --> 00:53:15,440
civilization is

1388
00:53:20,069 --> 00:53:18,079
totally destroyed and then people come

1389
00:53:21,990 --> 00:53:20,079
back 12 000 years later

1390
00:53:23,910 --> 00:53:22,000
and look at parts of manhattan or

1391
00:53:26,710 --> 00:53:23,920
whatnot and they just find a

1392
00:53:27,510 --> 00:53:26,720
huge couple of huge whatever you call

1393
00:53:31,349 --> 00:53:27,520
you know the big

1394
00:53:33,430 --> 00:53:31,359
big um block letters that were maybe on

1395
00:53:35,349 --> 00:53:33,440
some monument

1396
00:53:37,109 --> 00:53:35,359
then would they know what would they

1397
00:53:39,829 --> 00:53:37,119
make of our civilization

1398
00:53:41,589 --> 00:53:39,839
right if uh and would they even think

1399
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:41,599
that those were letters in writing or

1400
00:53:43,750 --> 00:53:42,240
would they

1401
00:53:46,230 --> 00:53:43,760
say that's all just some kind of you

1402
00:53:48,630 --> 00:53:46,240
know fancy design

1403
00:53:50,549 --> 00:53:48,640
are not even so fancy design or they

1404
00:53:53,750 --> 00:53:50,559
could could they extrapolate

1405
00:53:56,230 --> 00:53:53,760
everything about us just from that

1406
00:53:57,670 --> 00:53:56,240
well clearly no they could not at all

1407
00:54:01,109 --> 00:53:57,680
and that's what i think we

1408
00:54:03,750 --> 00:54:01,119
we have we have to be careful and not

1409
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:03,760
underestimate i think we tend to under

1410
00:54:06,950 --> 00:54:04,160
we

1411
00:54:07,670 --> 00:54:06,960
not you and i but um the academia i'll

1412
00:54:11,109 --> 00:54:07,680
talk say

1413
00:54:15,030 --> 00:54:11,119
that way tends to underestimate um

1414
00:54:17,990 --> 00:54:15,040
how advanced these people were

1415
00:54:18,870 --> 00:54:18,000
yet it seems a little ridiculous to me

1416
00:54:20,549 --> 00:54:18,880
uh

1417
00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:20,559
i just want to give one quick example

1418
00:54:25,990 --> 00:54:22,559
because i guess we're going into a break

1419
00:54:28,549 --> 00:54:26,000
i was reading one paper and um

1420
00:54:30,069 --> 00:54:28,559
there was a commentary on on it where

1421
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:30,079
they were saying if you found

1422
00:54:37,270 --> 00:54:34,240
certain little plaques and stones and

1423
00:54:39,750 --> 00:54:37,280
whatnot with engravings on them

1424
00:54:41,589 --> 00:54:39,760
these have been found at quebec tepe and

1425
00:54:43,430 --> 00:54:41,599
people just dismiss them as some kind of

1426
00:54:44,950 --> 00:54:43,440
oh you know they were just scratching on

1427
00:54:47,910 --> 00:54:44,960
rocks etc etc

1428
00:54:50,470 --> 00:54:47,920
if you found them eight thousand nine

1429
00:54:51,670 --> 00:54:50,480
thousand years later in the context of

1430
00:54:55,109 --> 00:54:51,680
say a sumer

1431
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:55,119
sumerian context you would recognize it

1432
00:54:58,309 --> 00:54:56,240
immediately as

1433
00:55:00,470 --> 00:54:58,319
writing that these were little tokens

1434
00:55:01,910 --> 00:55:00,480
with you know writing or little receipts

1435
00:55:03,990 --> 00:55:01,920
that type of thing

1436
00:55:05,030 --> 00:55:04,000
yet because it's so old people don't

1437
00:55:08,470 --> 00:55:05,040
even want

1438
00:55:10,230 --> 00:55:08,480
to think in those terms

1439
00:55:11,829 --> 00:55:10,240
yeah and that's the problem that we have

1440
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:11,839
today certainly yeah so they just

1441
00:55:15,349 --> 00:55:12,400
dismiss

1442
00:55:17,030 --> 00:55:15,359
what potential evidence outright as

1443
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:17,040
impossible because oh

1444
00:55:21,910 --> 00:55:20,079
they're so old we know quote unquote

1445
00:55:24,710 --> 00:55:21,920
i've heard that so many times in my

1446
00:55:26,230 --> 00:55:24,720
career we know that's impossible

1447
00:55:27,990 --> 00:55:26,240
let's take our break right here our

1448
00:55:31,510 --> 00:55:28,000
guest tonight robert m

1449
00:55:32,150 --> 00:55:31,520
shock it's our go beckley teppy special

1450
00:55:35,190 --> 00:55:32,160
event

1451
00:55:36,549 --> 00:55:35,200
and uh dr shock i'll let you know the go

1452
00:55:39,910 --> 00:55:36,559
beckley teppy count

1453
00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:39,920
is up to 49. now it's 50.

1454
00:56:16,970 --> 00:56:14,829
[Music]

1455
00:56:22,069 --> 00:56:16,980
then

1456
00:56:25,430 --> 00:56:23,670
welcome back fade to black i'm your host

1457
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:25,440
jimmy church our guest tonight dr robert

1458
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:25,760
m

1459
00:56:30,150 --> 00:56:28,079
shock this is our annual go beckley

1460
00:56:33,349 --> 00:56:30,160
teppy special events

1461
00:56:36,710 --> 00:56:33,359
and this is where we're gonna go now

1462
00:56:39,750 --> 00:56:36,720
and i want i want everybody to just

1463
00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:39,760
digest what i am about to say

1464
00:56:43,510 --> 00:56:42,880
that uh especially here in the united

1465
00:56:47,190 --> 00:56:43,520
states

1466
00:56:50,309 --> 00:56:47,200
we don't have a concept of history here

1467
00:56:52,390 --> 00:56:50,319
history to us is how old is the

1468
00:56:54,230 --> 00:56:52,400
mcdonald's down the street and when it

1469
00:56:56,069 --> 00:56:54,240
was built we don't have a concept of

1470
00:56:59,670 --> 00:56:56,079
history it's a country that's

1471
00:57:02,950 --> 00:56:59,680
barely uh 200 uh years old

1472
00:57:04,309 --> 00:57:02,960
but in in that part of the world around

1473
00:57:06,870 --> 00:57:04,319
gobekli tepe

1474
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:06,880
and certainly egypt and mesopotamia and

1475
00:57:10,870 --> 00:57:08,000
persia

1476
00:57:11,190 --> 00:57:10,880
and and heading over to armenia things

1477
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:11,200
are

1478
00:57:16,630 --> 00:57:14,240
really old and when you can look in your

1479
00:57:17,910 --> 00:57:16,640
backyard and look at mount ararat and

1480
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:17,920
talk about

1481
00:57:23,910 --> 00:57:21,599
noah you're you're in a place

1482
00:57:25,750 --> 00:57:23,920
uh on this planet that is really old and

1483
00:57:29,430 --> 00:57:25,760
these traditions

1484
00:57:32,630 --> 00:57:29,440
and history go back uh 10 000 years and

1485
00:57:33,589 --> 00:57:32,640
way beyond that point and this is

1486
00:57:36,789 --> 00:57:33,599
something that

1487
00:57:37,750 --> 00:57:36,799
the the people in those regions uh fully

1488
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:37,760
understand

1489
00:57:42,870 --> 00:57:40,960
we don't have a concept here in in the

1490
00:57:45,030 --> 00:57:42,880
united states and in the modern world it

1491
00:57:48,390 --> 00:57:45,040
just doesn't work that way

1492
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:48,400
that being said there are things

1493
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:51,920
uh that stem off of gobekli tepi

1494
00:57:58,870 --> 00:57:55,520
that reach into uh ancient sumer

1495
00:57:59,430 --> 00:57:58,880
uh the tales of gilgamesh uh the great

1496
00:58:01,430 --> 00:57:59,440
flood

1497
00:58:03,030 --> 00:58:01,440
things that uh dr shock you've been

1498
00:58:05,990 --> 00:58:03,040
talking about for a long time

1499
00:58:07,030 --> 00:58:06,000
and and and certainly graham hancock and

1500
00:58:09,910 --> 00:58:07,040
robert baval

1501
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:09,920
and others have have been talking about

1502
00:58:13,670 --> 00:58:10,240
the

1503
00:58:16,950 --> 00:58:13,680
handed down

1504
00:58:19,510 --> 00:58:16,960
all of this can also point back to

1505
00:58:21,510 --> 00:58:19,520
some of the representations that is

1506
00:58:24,789 --> 00:58:21,520
there in the symbology

1507
00:58:27,270 --> 00:58:24,799
at uh go back to tapi right

1508
00:58:28,150 --> 00:58:27,280
oh yeah i think a lot of it can go back

1509
00:58:30,390 --> 00:58:28,160
um

1510
00:58:31,750 --> 00:58:30,400
to that earlier period and a lot of it

1511
00:58:34,390 --> 00:58:31,760
goes back to what they

1512
00:58:37,349 --> 00:58:34,400
were suffering from or when i say

1513
00:58:40,390 --> 00:58:37,359
suffering from what they experienced

1514
00:58:42,670 --> 00:58:40,400
so i've never you know

1515
00:58:44,630 --> 00:58:42,680
it's there are lots of different

1516
00:58:46,470 --> 00:58:44,640
interpretations of some of

1517
00:58:48,710 --> 00:58:46,480
the uh things you were just mentioning

1518
00:58:52,309 --> 00:58:48,720
the no way cam flood and guild maga

1519
00:58:56,230 --> 00:58:53,829
and of course there's the flood story in

1520
00:58:59,670 --> 00:58:56,240
gilgamesh which essentially mimics

1521
00:59:03,670 --> 00:58:59,680
the um the tale of noah

1522
00:59:05,910 --> 00:59:03,680
and the deluge and my personal opinion

1523
00:59:07,030 --> 00:59:05,920
is and this is something i've been

1524
00:59:10,390 --> 00:59:07,040
looking at very

1525
00:59:13,990 --> 00:59:10,400
carefully for decades now you have

1526
00:59:16,150 --> 00:59:14,000
these some of these tales some of these

1527
00:59:17,430 --> 00:59:16,160
traditions these stories whatever you

1528
00:59:20,549 --> 00:59:17,440
want to call them

1529
00:59:20,950 --> 00:59:20,559
and they're essentially worldwide and

1530
00:59:24,230 --> 00:59:20,960
they

1531
00:59:27,190 --> 00:59:24,240
go back to a very early period

1532
00:59:29,510 --> 00:59:27,200
you have them very well expressed in

1533
00:59:30,950 --> 00:59:29,520
mesopotamia and when i say mesopotamia

1534
00:59:32,870 --> 00:59:30,960
i'm actually thinking primarily of

1535
00:59:36,069 --> 00:59:32,880
northern mesopotamia

1536
00:59:38,870 --> 00:59:36,079
that includes everything um uh

1537
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:38,880
between the tigris and euphrates and

1538
00:59:41,109 --> 00:59:40,799
even a little bit beyond either way will

1539
00:59:43,109 --> 00:59:41,119
do

1540
00:59:44,950 --> 00:59:43,119
using a very broad sense but that

1541
00:59:48,470 --> 00:59:44,960
includes quebec le tepe

1542
00:59:51,270 --> 00:59:48,480
that's where the bible says that eve was

1543
00:59:53,349 --> 00:59:51,280
i'm not claiming that gobekli tepe is

1544
00:59:56,150 --> 00:59:53,359
the guardian of eden but certainly was

1545
00:59:57,349 --> 00:59:56,160
in the eden area you just mentioned

1546
01:00:01,510 --> 00:59:57,359
ararat

1547
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:01,520
which is in traditional armenia it's now

1548
01:00:05,910 --> 01:00:05,200
technically in and uh modern turkey but

1549
01:00:09,270 --> 01:00:05,920
again these

1550
01:00:11,910 --> 01:00:09,280
these national boundaries

1551
01:00:13,270 --> 01:00:11,920
are those are modern even if they go

1552
01:00:16,069 --> 01:00:13,280
back thousands of years they're

1553
01:00:16,630 --> 01:00:16,079
they're modern uh so i think we have to

1554
01:00:18,950 --> 01:00:16,640
ignore

1555
01:00:19,750 --> 01:00:18,960
that when we're talking about these very

1556
01:00:25,670 --> 01:00:19,760
ancient

1557
01:00:26,789 --> 01:00:25,680
and it ties in in this one of the

1558
01:00:29,030 --> 01:00:26,799
beauties for me

1559
01:00:29,990 --> 01:00:29,040
personally as a geologist it ties in

1560
01:00:33,109 --> 01:00:30,000
with the

1561
01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:33,119
natural earth cycles and natural earth

1562
01:00:39,670 --> 01:00:36,160
history so in my personal opinion

1563
01:00:42,390 --> 01:00:39,680
the whole concept of noah's ark and

1564
01:00:44,069 --> 01:00:42,400
gilgamesh and the flood there and other

1565
01:00:47,190 --> 01:00:44,079
flood traditions we have

1566
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:47,200
it ties in with real events that

1567
01:00:51,270 --> 01:00:49,359
in my assessment were happening at the

1568
01:00:54,470 --> 01:00:51,280
end of the last ice age

1569
01:00:55,670 --> 01:00:54,480
with the ending and the climatic changes

1570
01:00:57,750 --> 01:00:55,680
and the

1571
01:00:59,870 --> 01:00:57,760
floods that we know occurred we have

1572
01:01:02,069 --> 01:00:59,880
independent evidence of that

1573
01:01:04,230 --> 01:01:02,079
geologically

1574
01:01:06,309 --> 01:01:04,240
not just sea level rises but actually

1575
01:01:09,349 --> 01:01:06,319
land floods etc

1576
01:01:11,270 --> 01:01:09,359
so it starts to tie in and it for me

1577
01:01:14,069 --> 01:01:11,280
it means that these people are not just

1578
01:01:15,589 --> 01:01:14,079
making up fancy stories for religious

1579
01:01:18,870 --> 01:01:15,599
purposes that have no

1580
01:01:22,470 --> 01:01:18,880
real basis but the they are passing on

1581
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:22,480
genuine information genuine knowledge

1582
01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:26,079
which is part of their

1583
01:01:32,870 --> 01:01:30,240
religious beliefs and philosophy

1584
01:01:35,270 --> 01:01:32,880
but that's not in any way to belittle it

1585
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:35,280
in fact i don't belittle religion at all

1586
01:01:39,349 --> 01:01:37,920
i think genuine true religion has a

1587
01:01:42,549 --> 01:01:39,359
foundation

1588
01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:42,559
in science uh i go back to i mean you

1589
01:01:46,950 --> 01:01:44,240
know the name i'm sure

1590
01:01:48,950 --> 01:01:46,960
uh but john and anthony west and i often

1591
01:01:51,829 --> 01:01:48,960
would talk about schwarz and john

1592
01:01:54,390 --> 01:01:51,839
anthony west would talk about schwarz

1593
01:01:55,510 --> 01:01:54,400
the concept that he promulgated of

1594
01:01:58,870 --> 01:01:55,520
sacred science that

1595
01:02:02,309 --> 01:01:58,880
ancient people combined together what we

1596
01:02:05,349 --> 01:02:02,319
would call religion philosophy science

1597
01:02:07,510 --> 01:02:05,359
into a unified whole and that is

1598
01:02:09,430 --> 01:02:07,520
to me one of the very important aspects

1599
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:09,440
of a site like the beckley tepe

1600
01:02:12,630 --> 01:02:11,760
it's not just the world's first temple i

1601
01:02:15,029 --> 01:02:12,640
actually get

1602
01:02:17,109 --> 01:02:15,039
really bristly when people call it that

1603
01:02:19,990 --> 01:02:17,119
because the to me that demeans it

1604
01:02:20,710 --> 01:02:20,000
that demeans all the other aspects of a

1605
01:02:22,630 --> 01:02:20,720
site like

1606
01:02:23,910 --> 01:02:22,640
beckley tape and the quebecois tepe

1607
01:02:25,470 --> 01:02:23,920
people who

1608
01:02:27,990 --> 01:02:25,480
i believe were so advanced

1609
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,000
technologically and scientifically

1610
01:02:34,069 --> 01:02:31,200
it wasn't just a bunch of you know

1611
01:02:34,710 --> 01:02:34,079
religious cult fanatics if you would

1612
01:02:37,190 --> 01:02:34,720
well there

1613
01:02:38,069 --> 01:02:37,200
are uh let's talk about some of these uh

1614
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:38,079
symbols

1615
01:02:41,430 --> 01:02:40,319
and i'm and i'm watching twitter i i

1616
01:02:43,589 --> 01:02:41,440
love uh

1617
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:43,599
the level of of knowledge and interest

1618
01:02:49,029 --> 01:02:46,079
in go back lee tuppy with this audience

1619
01:02:50,549 --> 01:02:49,039
uh and there are a couple of things

1620
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:50,559
there that i want to address

1621
01:02:55,190 --> 01:02:53,520
directly one of them and i know that you

1622
01:02:57,589 --> 01:02:55,200
worked with uh vazgen

1623
01:02:58,390 --> 01:02:57,599
uh over there and what a wealth of

1624
01:03:02,309 --> 01:02:58,400
knowledge

1625
01:03:06,789 --> 01:03:02,319
and uh when you're walking through

1626
01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:06,799
uh gobekli tapi today and you see

1627
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:09,039
one of the symbols there and there's a

1628
01:03:14,470 --> 01:03:10,160
sculpture there that

1629
01:03:18,870 --> 01:03:14,480
is is they classify as uh sculpture zero

1630
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:18,880
that one has uh an upside down u

1631
01:03:25,270 --> 01:03:21,920
which is uh the armenian letter vo

1632
01:03:27,670 --> 01:03:25,280
upside down u and underneath it is

1633
01:03:28,789 --> 01:03:27,680
uh what looks like a regular u but the

1634
01:03:32,069 --> 01:03:28,799
two symbols

1635
01:03:35,190 --> 01:03:32,079
join together uh are a

1636
01:03:37,430 --> 01:03:35,200
symbol of uh the universe

1637
01:03:38,950 --> 01:03:37,440
and yeah so yeah it could be a symbol of

1638
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:38,960
the universe something

1639
01:03:42,789 --> 01:03:41,039
i want to point out that uh there's a

1640
01:03:44,950 --> 01:03:42,799
there's a lot of

1641
01:03:46,950 --> 01:03:44,960
symbols can often carry numerous

1642
01:03:48,150 --> 01:03:46,960
meanings simultaneously we know that

1643
01:03:50,789 --> 01:03:48,160
even for today

1644
01:03:52,630 --> 01:03:50,799
sure and they're very powerful you can

1645
01:03:53,829 --> 01:03:52,640
actually i once got very upset when i

1646
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:53,839
was watching

1647
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:55,920
uh or watching attending a lecture and

1648
01:03:59,589 --> 01:03:57,839
the guy went on and on about if you

1649
01:04:01,670 --> 01:03:59,599
can't say it in words

1650
01:04:03,829 --> 01:04:01,680
that doesn't exist or i forget how he

1651
01:04:04,309 --> 01:04:03,839
said it no in fact i would disagree with

1652
01:04:07,829 --> 01:04:04,319
that

1653
01:04:10,950 --> 01:04:07,839
you can express

1654
01:04:14,870 --> 01:04:10,960
express in art and symbolism

1655
01:04:19,109 --> 01:04:14,880
etc in non-just

1656
01:04:21,430 --> 01:04:19,119
linear words that are very very powerful

1657
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:21,440
very expressive but you can't

1658
01:04:25,910 --> 01:04:23,599
necessarily put them into words that you

1659
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:25,920
can say over a radio program not to put

1660
01:04:30,230 --> 01:04:27,599
down a radio program

1661
01:04:30,950 --> 01:04:30,240
uh but you you i'm sure you know what i

1662
01:04:32,630 --> 01:04:30,960
mean

1663
01:04:35,349 --> 01:04:32,640
so when you look at some of these

1664
01:04:37,349 --> 01:04:35,359
symbols something that um

1665
01:04:39,109 --> 01:04:37,359
my colleague and i know you know him

1666
01:04:41,910 --> 01:04:39,119
manu safe today

1667
01:04:42,630 --> 01:04:41,920
dr manu sesadey and i uh have been

1668
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:42,640
looking at

1669
01:04:45,670 --> 01:04:44,960
and he first pointed out that some of

1670
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:45,680
this

1671
01:04:50,230 --> 01:04:48,960
not just armenian but where sometimes

1672
01:04:53,029 --> 01:04:50,240
known as luain

1673
01:04:54,230 --> 01:04:53,039
or hittite and these terms are thrown

1674
01:04:56,069 --> 01:04:54,240
around loosely

1675
01:04:58,069 --> 01:04:56,079
so i don't want to put a lot of

1676
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:58,079
significance on any specific one

1677
01:05:02,069 --> 01:05:00,960
or tie them to any specific ethnic group

1678
01:05:04,390 --> 01:05:02,079
but you have

1679
01:05:05,589 --> 01:05:04,400
hired these ancient hieroglyphic

1680
01:05:08,870 --> 01:05:05,599
inscriptions now

1681
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:08,880
ancient from our perspective

1682
01:05:12,230 --> 01:05:11,520
you know going back three thousand four

1683
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:12,240
thousand

1684
01:05:17,910 --> 01:05:15,680
years or so so much much later than

1685
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:17,920
quebec lee tepe time

1686
01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:21,440
but carrying some of the same

1687
01:05:26,150 --> 01:05:24,000
symbolism some of the same apparent

1688
01:05:28,150 --> 01:05:26,160
letters and you just pointed out also in

1689
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:28,160
the armenian some of the same letters

1690
01:05:32,470 --> 01:05:29,039
etc

1691
01:05:36,630 --> 01:05:32,480
and i do think that we have to look

1692
01:05:38,549 --> 01:05:36,640
carefully and accept the possibility and

1693
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:38,559
i do accept the possibility

1694
01:05:41,750 --> 01:05:40,960
that there were things that were carried

1695
01:05:44,950 --> 01:05:41,760
over that

1696
01:05:45,750 --> 01:05:44,960
that made it through those thousands of

1697
01:05:48,390 --> 01:05:45,760
years

1698
01:05:50,390 --> 01:05:48,400
so i want to point out one which ties in

1699
01:05:53,589 --> 01:05:50,400
with what you were just saying

1700
01:05:55,109 --> 01:05:53,599
when you look at the louisiana or hit

1701
01:05:58,230 --> 01:05:55,119
type the anatolian

1702
01:06:01,589 --> 01:05:58,240
inscriptions you have a very

1703
01:06:03,430 --> 01:06:01,599
similar makeup of

1704
01:06:05,750 --> 01:06:03,440
if it's vertical it's the way you

1705
01:06:06,950 --> 01:06:05,760
described if it's horizontal it looks

1706
01:06:09,670 --> 01:06:06,960
like a c

1707
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:09,680
and h the letter h or variation on the

1708
01:06:13,829 --> 01:06:10,720
letter h

1709
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:13,839
and then a backwards c and you have that

1710
01:06:17,270 --> 01:06:14,880
for instance on

1711
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:17,280
one of the pillars known as pillar 18 at

1712
01:06:21,990 --> 01:06:18,960
quebecois tepe

1713
01:06:25,829 --> 01:06:22,000
that is the word for god uh

1714
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:25,839
it's it's uh no doubt in my mind the

1715
01:06:30,710 --> 01:06:26,960
word for god

1716
01:06:33,589 --> 01:06:30,720
and i believe in quebec tepe times

1717
01:06:34,230 --> 01:06:33,599
but it was also used at a much later

1718
01:06:37,029 --> 01:06:34,240
period

1719
01:06:38,710 --> 01:06:37,039
in the anatolian region as the word for

1720
01:06:39,670 --> 01:06:38,720
god and i think that's something that

1721
01:06:41,750 --> 01:06:39,680
transferred

1722
01:06:43,510 --> 01:06:41,760
but more than that and i want to mention

1723
01:06:46,789 --> 01:06:43,520
this and then we can talk about more

1724
01:06:50,150 --> 01:06:46,799
it's also a plasma it's

1725
01:06:54,630 --> 01:06:50,160
basically uh how should i say it a

1726
01:06:58,150 --> 01:06:54,640
construct or a symbolism

1727
01:07:00,710 --> 01:06:58,160
derived from a simplified version

1728
01:07:02,710 --> 01:07:00,720
of a plasma taurus that you get for

1729
01:07:04,150 --> 01:07:02,720
instance during major solar outbursts so

1730
01:07:05,990 --> 01:07:04,160
i think they're tying

1731
01:07:07,549 --> 01:07:06,000
numerous things together between the

1732
01:07:11,190 --> 01:07:07,559
concept of god

1733
01:07:14,549 --> 01:07:11,200
eternity um the sun

1734
01:07:15,349 --> 01:07:14,559
plasma what we call plasma physics and

1735
01:07:18,710 --> 01:07:15,359
you have

1736
01:07:22,549 --> 01:07:18,720
all these this nexus of different

1737
01:07:24,950 --> 01:07:22,559
intersecting meanings and connections

1738
01:07:26,950 --> 01:07:24,960
beautifully shown in one symbol it's

1739
01:07:29,270 --> 01:07:26,960
served equivalent in modern terms of a

1740
01:07:32,230 --> 01:07:29,280
mathematical equation

1741
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:32,240
uh so i'm just point i i know it's a lot

1742
01:07:36,069 --> 01:07:32,799
to say

1743
01:07:39,029 --> 01:07:36,079
very simply but

1744
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:39,039
i think it shows the sophistication of

1745
01:07:42,470 --> 01:07:39,440
those

1746
01:07:47,510 --> 01:07:42,480
people at that time now

1747
01:07:50,870 --> 01:07:47,520
when uh we we are trying to understand

1748
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:50,880
how complex uh this culture

1749
01:08:00,950 --> 01:07:59,510
and they were not hunter i wanted to

1750
01:08:02,789 --> 01:08:00,960
make a quick point they were not just

1751
01:08:05,990 --> 01:08:02,799
simple hunter gatherers

1752
01:08:08,870 --> 01:08:06,000
as so many people say uh

1753
01:08:10,630 --> 01:08:08,880
they were bound by symbolism they that

1754
01:08:12,270 --> 01:08:10,640
connected them i mean they were

1755
01:08:14,470 --> 01:08:12,280
talking about you know we're talking

1756
01:08:17,749 --> 01:08:14,480
sophisticated thinking

1757
01:08:21,349 --> 01:08:17,759
uh here in in complex abstract

1758
01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:21,359
thinking uh so many of my archaeological

1759
01:08:23,990 --> 01:08:23,120
colleagues they say well to have true

1760
01:08:26,070 --> 01:08:24,000
civilization

1761
01:08:27,749 --> 01:08:26,080
you have to have megalithic structures

1762
01:08:30,470 --> 01:08:27,759
you have to have settlement

1763
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:30,480
in cities you have to have writing and

1764
01:08:33,749 --> 01:08:32,080
they would say oh well the quebecois

1765
01:08:35,430 --> 01:08:33,759
tepi people didn't have writing they

1766
01:08:36,789 --> 01:08:35,440
weren't that sophisticated they didn't

1767
01:08:39,030 --> 01:08:36,799
have cities

1768
01:08:40,550 --> 01:08:39,040
because we haven't found them yet and

1769
01:08:43,430 --> 01:08:40,560
then they sort of well

1770
01:08:44,070 --> 01:08:43,440
poo poo if i could use that term dismiss

1771
01:08:47,590 --> 01:08:44,080
the

1772
01:08:48,070 --> 01:08:47,600
obvious megalithic structures uh that we

1773
01:08:51,110 --> 01:08:48,080
see

1774
01:08:53,990 --> 01:08:51,120
but i would say they they had absolutely

1775
01:08:57,110 --> 01:08:54,000
all three of them they had writing

1776
01:08:59,349 --> 01:08:57,120
as i was starting to describe they had

1777
01:09:01,829 --> 01:08:59,359
incredibly sophisticated megalithic

1778
01:09:05,510 --> 01:09:01,839
structures as we were just talking about

1779
01:09:07,829 --> 01:09:05,520
and laid out according to sophisticated

1780
01:09:09,430 --> 01:09:07,839
ground plans in engineering

1781
01:09:11,669 --> 01:09:09,440
and where were they living where were

1782
01:09:14,070 --> 01:09:11,679
there cities i think that

1783
01:09:16,309 --> 01:09:14,080
um among other things urfa the city of

1784
01:09:19,430 --> 01:09:16,319
urfa the modern city of urfa

1785
01:09:21,269 --> 01:09:19,440
every place where they dig down for a

1786
01:09:24,870 --> 01:09:21,279
new sewer or a new

1787
01:09:28,149 --> 01:09:24,880
um road construction or

1788
01:09:30,070 --> 01:09:28,159
urban development they find ancient

1789
01:09:31,990 --> 01:09:30,080
uh sites going back to the time of

1790
01:09:34,229 --> 01:09:32,000
quebec tepe so

1791
01:09:36,309 --> 01:09:34,239
i don't think that it's a mystery as to

1792
01:09:38,390 --> 01:09:36,319
where the quebecois tepe people may have

1793
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:38,400
been living one of the places

1794
01:09:47,269 --> 01:09:45,430
most oldest continuously habited

1795
01:09:49,590 --> 01:09:47,279
inhabited areas in the

1796
01:09:50,309 --> 01:09:49,600
world uh you were just mentioning that i

1797
01:09:52,950 --> 01:09:50,319
mean you know

1798
01:09:53,829 --> 01:09:52,960
things two thousand years old in urfa

1799
01:09:57,990 --> 01:09:53,839
that's nothing

1800
01:10:00,149 --> 01:09:58,000
yeah a big deal you know

1801
01:10:01,510 --> 01:10:00,159
um and it's just and tying in with what

1802
01:10:02,149 --> 01:10:01,520
we're talking about it's a city of

1803
01:10:06,149 --> 01:10:02,159
prophets

1804
01:10:06,950 --> 01:10:06,159
abraham um was uh said to have lived

1805
01:10:10,229 --> 01:10:06,960
there

1806
01:10:13,030 --> 01:10:10,239
um iran which is uh uh

1807
01:10:13,430 --> 01:10:13,040
not far from quebec tepe if people know

1808
01:10:16,070 --> 01:10:13,440
their

1809
01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:16,080
bible genesis iran's right there abraham

1810
01:10:19,750 --> 01:10:17,280
was there

1811
01:10:21,750 --> 01:10:19,760
uh and you know so this is really a

1812
01:10:25,270 --> 01:10:21,760
place where so much of this

1813
01:10:27,030 --> 01:10:25,280
originated and so much goes back so far

1814
01:10:29,270 --> 01:10:27,040
i wanted to point out if people want to

1815
01:10:31,189 --> 01:10:29,280
read about this in detail

1816
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:31,199
and i'm not trying to put plugs in for

1817
01:10:37,350 --> 01:10:33,840
myself but if they go to my website

1818
01:10:37,990 --> 01:10:37,360
uh robertssock.com and look at the tabs

1819
01:10:41,110 --> 01:10:38,000
they'll find

1820
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:41,120
one for an article called god in the sun

1821
01:10:44,550 --> 01:10:43,920
the writing at quebec tepe god and the

1822
01:10:47,110 --> 01:10:44,560
son

1823
01:10:49,030 --> 01:10:47,120
the writing at the beckley tepe and i

1824
01:10:50,790 --> 01:10:49,040
should say gobekli tepe again just so

1825
01:10:52,950 --> 01:10:50,800
people remember what we're talking about

1826
01:10:55,910 --> 01:10:52,960
yeah we're trying to get to number 70.

1827
01:10:58,310 --> 01:10:55,920
so we're getting there yeah there you go

1828
01:10:58,950 --> 01:10:58,320
just hit number 70 man it's going to be

1829
01:11:01,030 --> 01:10:58,960
a rough

1830
01:11:02,229 --> 01:11:01,040
morning tomorrow people go to god in the

1831
01:11:04,070 --> 01:11:02,239
sun on my website

1832
01:11:06,310 --> 01:11:04,080
they'll um see what we're talking about

1833
01:11:09,189 --> 01:11:06,320
they can see some of the symbols and

1834
01:11:11,110 --> 01:11:09,199
how it ties in how dr um saves the day

1835
01:11:11,990 --> 01:11:11,120
manuscripts today and i have tied it

1836
01:11:13,750 --> 01:11:12,000
together

1837
01:11:15,990 --> 01:11:13,760
so i think people should take a look at

1838
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:16,000
that if they're interested

1839
01:11:21,750 --> 01:11:19,760
this is what i find about as interesting

1840
01:11:24,870 --> 01:11:21,760
as it can get and there's

1841
01:11:28,470 --> 01:11:24,880
so many things about go back to tepe but

1842
01:11:30,470 --> 01:11:28,480
when we talk about uh ancient egyptian

1843
01:11:31,750 --> 01:11:30,480
temples and the representation of the

1844
01:11:33,510 --> 01:11:31,760
zodiac

1845
01:11:35,030 --> 01:11:33,520
one was cut out of the ceiling i think

1846
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:35,040
it was in dandera and

1847
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:38,480
yeah that was tender yeah and

1848
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:40,480
and is now like in the british museum

1849
01:11:42,870 --> 01:11:42,000
and they've got a no it's actually that

1850
01:11:46,149 --> 01:11:42,880
one's in paris

1851
01:11:48,070 --> 01:11:46,159
or paris doesn't matter

1852
01:11:49,750 --> 01:11:48,080
paris versus london no i'm saying that

1853
01:11:51,030 --> 01:11:49,760
seriously from the egyptian point of

1854
01:11:53,350 --> 01:11:51,040
view they want the back

1855
01:11:55,510 --> 01:11:53,360
they want it back and so they went back

1856
01:11:58,870 --> 01:11:55,520
they the rosetta stones in

1857
01:11:59,990 --> 01:11:58,880
britain and the uh the zodiac you're

1858
01:12:01,910 --> 01:12:00,000
referring to

1859
01:12:03,189 --> 01:12:01,920
i i hope i'm getting this rise in paris

1860
01:12:05,830 --> 01:12:03,199
but they want them all back

1861
01:12:07,430 --> 01:12:05,840
yeah they want them back but that's

1862
01:12:09,990 --> 01:12:07,440
another argument again

1863
01:12:10,709 --> 01:12:10,000
and we don't want to go there right now

1864
01:12:13,990 --> 01:12:10,719
necessarily

1865
01:12:17,030 --> 01:12:14,000
which

1866
01:12:20,390 --> 01:12:17,040
is that zodiac

1867
01:12:22,709 --> 01:12:20,400
has been spoken about for uh

1868
01:12:24,149 --> 01:12:22,719
a hundred years about its importance and

1869
01:12:26,229 --> 01:12:24,159
its significance and

1870
01:12:28,630 --> 01:12:26,239
and that it was there and and how could

1871
01:12:31,510 --> 01:12:28,640
they have a zodiac represented like

1872
01:12:31,910 --> 01:12:31,520
that uh four thousand years ago okay all

1873
01:12:35,350 --> 01:12:31,920
right

1874
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:35,360
i i can digest that but how

1875
01:12:42,870 --> 01:12:39,679
how do we explain a zodiac

1876
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:42,880
at go back lee tappy right wait why

1877
01:12:48,550 --> 01:12:46,080
why why do we have to hear we fall into

1878
01:12:49,669 --> 01:12:48,560
the trap i think of why do we have to

1879
01:12:52,630 --> 01:12:49,679
even

1880
01:12:53,189 --> 01:12:52,640
say how can we explain the beckley tepe

1881
01:12:55,430 --> 01:12:53,199
people

1882
01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:55,440
i have no doubt in my mind i mean they

1883
01:12:58,470 --> 01:12:56,480
were as smart as

1884
01:13:00,709 --> 01:12:58,480
us they were as intelligent as us they

1885
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:00,719
were capable of making

1886
01:13:04,390 --> 01:13:03,280
just as good observations as us maybe

1887
01:13:08,070 --> 01:13:04,400
better

1888
01:13:08,470 --> 01:13:08,080
um so why not and at quebec tepe you

1889
01:13:12,310 --> 01:13:08,480
have

1890
01:13:14,870 --> 01:13:12,320
surrounded by

1891
01:13:17,350 --> 01:13:14,880
a ring of pillars think about what's a

1892
01:13:20,310 --> 01:13:17,360
zodiac it's um

1893
01:13:21,270 --> 01:13:20,320
you know a set of animals in the sky

1894
01:13:25,189 --> 01:13:21,280
surrounding us

1895
01:13:28,470 --> 01:13:25,199
and gobekli tepe by my my interpretation

1896
01:13:30,790 --> 01:13:28,480
what's known as enclosure uh d

1897
01:13:32,310 --> 01:13:30,800
the central pillars actually represent

1898
01:13:35,350 --> 01:13:32,320
orion and looked out at

1899
01:13:37,510 --> 01:13:35,360
orion on the vernal equinox just before

1900
01:13:41,430 --> 01:13:37,520
the end of the last ice age and

1901
01:13:42,870 --> 01:13:41,440
orion the headless hunter uh was

1902
01:13:45,189 --> 01:13:42,880
because it looks like a headless hunter

1903
01:13:48,790 --> 01:13:45,199
in the sky a torso it's it's a

1904
01:13:50,550 --> 01:13:48,800
good match for what we have symbolized

1905
01:13:52,950 --> 01:13:50,560
at beckley tepe

1906
01:13:55,430 --> 01:13:52,960
with the zodiac around it i mean zodiac

1907
01:13:58,550 --> 01:13:55,440
literally means the zoo or the animals

1908
01:14:00,950 --> 01:13:58,560
around it and we are finding

1909
01:14:02,070 --> 01:14:00,960
not just a quebecois tepe but throughout

1910
01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:02,080
the world these

1911
01:14:08,950 --> 01:14:05,679
traditions and some of the very

1912
01:14:12,229 --> 01:14:08,960
same constellations we recognize

1913
01:14:14,310 --> 01:14:12,239
now go back to well before the end of

1914
01:14:17,030 --> 01:14:14,320
the last ice age

1915
01:14:18,790 --> 01:14:17,040
orion is one that goes back i have no

1916
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:18,800
doubt based on the evidence that

1917
01:14:23,189 --> 01:14:21,280
people were recognizing orion before

1918
01:14:25,110 --> 01:14:23,199
well before the end of the last ice age

1919
01:14:28,310 --> 01:14:25,120
as orion as

1920
01:14:29,990 --> 01:14:28,320
as a human uh some were interpreting as

1921
01:14:30,950 --> 01:14:30,000
a king some was a hunter there were

1922
01:14:34,790 --> 01:14:30,960
various

1923
01:14:35,830 --> 01:14:34,800
versions of it uh taurus is another one

1924
01:14:39,669 --> 01:14:35,840
that was

1925
01:14:40,630 --> 01:14:39,679
recognized possibly leo uh the lion is

1926
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:40,640
another one so

1927
01:14:46,149 --> 01:14:43,920
scorpio is there scorpio yeah i mean a

1928
01:14:49,030 --> 01:14:46,159
lot of these they go back

1929
01:14:50,470 --> 01:14:49,040
much much earlier when i when i was a

1930
01:14:53,189 --> 01:14:50,480
graduate student

1931
01:14:55,030 --> 01:14:53,199
uh you know and i studied such things

1932
01:14:56,229 --> 01:14:55,040
and they sort of laughed it off oh you

1933
01:14:58,630 --> 01:14:56,239
know the the

1934
01:15:00,310 --> 01:14:58,640
constellations all the constellations

1935
01:15:03,510 --> 01:15:00,320
that we know they go back

1936
01:15:04,950 --> 01:15:03,520
no more than maybe three four thousand

1937
01:15:08,070 --> 01:15:04,960
years at the most

1938
01:15:10,470 --> 01:15:08,080
maybe five if you're really pushing it

1939
01:15:11,110 --> 01:15:10,480
uh no one could imagine they would go

1940
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:11,120
back

1941
01:15:15,430 --> 01:15:13,760
well more than twice that in any kind of

1942
01:15:17,270 --> 01:15:15,440
semblance

1943
01:15:18,790 --> 01:15:17,280
of you know what we see now now i'm not

1944
01:15:20,310 --> 01:15:18,800
seeing every constellation some of the

1945
01:15:22,310 --> 01:15:20,320
constellations we recognize

1946
01:15:23,590 --> 01:15:22,320
now are even you know from medieval or

1947
01:15:26,149 --> 01:15:23,600
modern times

1948
01:15:27,270 --> 01:15:26,159
but a lot of these major ones they go

1949
01:15:30,229 --> 01:15:27,280
back to

1950
01:15:32,149 --> 01:15:30,239
a much much earlier period i also wanted

1951
01:15:33,910 --> 01:15:32,159
to make a point about hunter gathers can

1952
01:15:36,630 --> 01:15:33,920
i make a point about hunter gatherers

1953
01:15:38,270 --> 01:15:36,640
yes just as long as it's about orion and

1954
01:15:41,990 --> 01:15:38,280
the progenator of orion

1955
01:15:44,229 --> 01:15:42,000
[Laughter]

1956
01:15:46,149 --> 01:15:44,239
well we can all tie that in and orion of

1957
01:15:49,270 --> 01:15:46,159
course is osiris

1958
01:15:53,030 --> 01:15:49,280
um in egypt and and

1959
01:15:56,790 --> 01:15:53,040
the the vulture next to

1960
01:15:58,149 --> 01:15:56,800
the scorpion when the way that it is

1961
01:16:03,430 --> 01:15:58,159
carved in that stone

1962
01:16:06,310 --> 01:16:03,440
lays nearly precisely

1963
01:16:07,110 --> 01:16:06,320
over the way orion is represented today

1964
01:16:10,149 --> 01:16:07,120
and

1965
01:16:11,030 --> 01:16:10,159
if you back it up in the procession it

1966
01:16:15,110 --> 01:16:11,040
eventually

1967
01:16:19,590 --> 01:16:17,590
yeah yeah exactly exactly i mean they

1968
01:16:21,350 --> 01:16:19,600
were they were incredibly sophisticated

1969
01:16:23,110 --> 01:16:21,360
so i wanted to say that you know so many

1970
01:16:24,709 --> 01:16:23,120
of my colleagues academic colleagues

1971
01:16:28,630 --> 01:16:24,719
they just say oh they were hunter

1972
01:16:30,470 --> 01:16:28,640
gatherers as if that's a horrible thing

1973
01:16:32,149 --> 01:16:30,480
and hunter gathers just ties back in

1974
01:16:34,070 --> 01:16:32,159
with what we're talking about that oh

1975
01:16:36,550 --> 01:16:34,080
hunter gathers they're cavemen they're

1976
01:16:38,470 --> 01:16:36,560
primitive they're just running around

1977
01:16:41,110 --> 01:16:38,480
with their little

1978
01:16:43,350 --> 01:16:41,120
sticks and how could they ever produce

1979
01:16:45,350 --> 01:16:43,360
anything like this but we've got gobekli

1980
01:16:47,270 --> 01:16:45,360
tepe that's number one

1981
01:16:49,030 --> 01:16:47,280
and we know they produced it you have to

1982
01:16:51,830 --> 01:16:49,040
face the fact and

1983
01:16:54,149 --> 01:16:51,840
i think you know it it only does us a

1984
01:16:57,669 --> 01:16:54,159
disservice to try to downplay it and

1985
01:17:00,149 --> 01:16:57,679
make it more primitive than it really is

1986
01:17:02,189 --> 01:17:00,159
but i also i also wanted to point out

1987
01:17:05,270 --> 01:17:02,199
that this whole business of

1988
01:17:07,830 --> 01:17:05,280
agriculture and what came first

1989
01:17:08,709 --> 01:17:07,840
cities and megalithic structures and

1990
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:08,719
symbolism

1991
01:17:14,950 --> 01:17:12,080
sophisticated thinking and agriculture

1992
01:17:15,590 --> 01:17:14,960
um yeah which came first that the

1993
01:17:18,070 --> 01:17:15,600
classic

1994
01:17:18,630 --> 01:17:18,080
view was agriculture came first and then

1995
01:17:20,709 --> 01:17:18,640
you had

1996
01:17:21,910 --> 01:17:20,719
settlements and that's only the time

1997
01:17:24,470 --> 01:17:21,920
when you could then

1998
01:17:26,229 --> 01:17:24,480
have um sophisticated megalithic

1999
01:17:28,709 --> 01:17:26,239
structures etc

2000
01:17:30,950 --> 01:17:28,719
but it could be the opposite way around

2001
01:17:31,510 --> 01:17:30,960
that you had megalithic structures first

2002
01:17:35,910 --> 01:17:31,520
and then

2003
01:17:37,110 --> 01:17:35,920
that caused humans to settle down have

2004
01:17:39,510 --> 01:17:37,120
agriculture

2005
01:17:41,110 --> 01:17:39,520
that's one possibility that we have to

2006
01:17:42,830 --> 01:17:41,120
look at carefully now

2007
01:17:44,470 --> 01:17:42,840
and i want to point out that there are

2008
01:17:48,070 --> 01:17:44,480
societies

2009
01:17:51,189 --> 01:17:48,080
that are hunter gatherers

2010
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:51,199
but they blossom they do very well like

2011
01:17:55,270 --> 01:17:52,640
the northwest coast

2012
01:17:57,189 --> 01:17:55,280
in america native americans they were a

2013
01:17:58,950 --> 01:17:57,199
hunter-gatherer society but

2014
01:18:01,430 --> 01:17:58,960
they were building huge wooden

2015
01:18:02,470 --> 01:18:01,440
structures and totem poles all that type

2016
01:18:05,590 --> 01:18:02,480
of thing

2017
01:18:06,790 --> 01:18:05,600
incredibly sophisticated but then

2018
01:18:09,430 --> 01:18:06,800
there's another

2019
01:18:11,030 --> 01:18:09,440
aspect to it which is maybe the

2020
01:18:14,229 --> 01:18:11,040
quebecois tepe people

2021
01:18:15,510 --> 01:18:14,239
did have cultivation agriculture that

2022
01:18:17,350 --> 01:18:15,520
type of thing

2023
01:18:18,550 --> 01:18:17,360
because there's a lot of evidence that

2024
01:18:22,790 --> 01:18:18,560
this actually could go

2025
01:18:26,149 --> 01:18:22,800
back much earlier than anyone suspected

2026
01:18:29,350 --> 01:18:26,159
because in the archaeological record

2027
01:18:32,630 --> 01:18:29,360
the way they recognize agriculture

2028
01:18:35,590 --> 01:18:32,640
typically is by looking at grains and

2029
01:18:38,630 --> 01:18:35,600
cereals and essentially what i would

2030
01:18:40,550 --> 01:18:38,640
call as a geologist sub-fossil remains

2031
01:18:42,550 --> 01:18:40,560
and they look to see if they've been

2032
01:18:46,070 --> 01:18:42,560
modified

2033
01:18:48,149 --> 01:18:46,080
and domesticated but

2034
01:18:51,110 --> 01:18:48,159
there's now a lot of evidence that the

2035
01:18:53,750 --> 01:18:51,120
earliest domestication

2036
01:18:55,270 --> 01:18:53,760
you don't see in morphological

2037
01:18:58,550 --> 01:18:55,280
modifications so it's

2038
01:19:00,790 --> 01:18:58,560
very hard to tell the wild

2039
01:19:01,590 --> 01:19:00,800
from the earliest domesticated am i

2040
01:19:03,350 --> 01:19:01,600
making sense

2041
01:19:05,189 --> 01:19:03,360
yes you are and we're going to take a

2042
01:19:07,950 --> 01:19:05,199
break we can't say

2043
01:19:09,110 --> 01:19:07,960
so definitively they didn't have

2044
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:09,120
sophisticated

2045
01:19:13,590 --> 01:19:11,840
cultivation techniques and whatnot no it

2046
01:19:15,910 --> 01:19:13,600
had to go hand in hand robert

2047
01:19:17,110 --> 01:19:15,920
and uh yeah we'll talk about yes but we

2048
01:19:18,550 --> 01:19:17,120
don't ever want to make too many

2049
01:19:19,669 --> 01:19:18,560
assumptions i want to look at the

2050
01:19:21,990 --> 01:19:19,679
evidence but no

2051
01:19:22,950 --> 01:19:22,000
you you see exactly what i'm saying i do

2052
01:19:24,870 --> 01:19:22,960
i do and

2053
01:19:26,470 --> 01:19:24,880
we're going to head towards a break and

2054
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:26,480
i want to make a correction

2055
01:19:31,910 --> 01:19:29,520
uh with the vulture it was cygnus

2056
01:19:33,510 --> 01:19:31,920
uh not orion i just got all excited

2057
01:19:35,189 --> 01:19:33,520
there let's take our warriors no no

2058
01:19:35,990 --> 01:19:35,199
actually there's a bunch of orion

2059
01:19:38,070 --> 01:19:36,000
correlations

2060
01:19:39,830 --> 01:19:38,080
there's cygnus is a whole different

2061
01:19:42,070 --> 01:19:39,840
thing yes it is

2062
01:19:44,149 --> 01:19:42,080
we won't go there too far no we can't

2063
01:19:45,590 --> 01:19:44,159
too technical but you were actually

2064
01:19:47,430 --> 01:19:45,600
right with both

2065
01:19:49,189 --> 01:19:47,440
um because what you have i'll just say

2066
01:19:50,149 --> 01:19:49,199
is quickly when you're looking at orion

2067
01:19:52,470 --> 01:19:50,159
on one side

2068
01:19:54,229 --> 01:19:52,480
cygnus is an opposite basically there

2069
01:19:55,910 --> 01:19:54,239
you go let's take our break right here

2070
01:19:59,270 --> 01:19:55,920
our guest tonight dr robert

2071
01:20:01,590 --> 01:19:59,280
m shock this is our go beckley teppy

2072
01:20:03,189 --> 01:20:01,600
special event we do it every year i'm

2073
01:20:05,020 --> 01:20:03,199
your host jimmy church this is fade to

2074
01:20:17,590 --> 01:20:05,030
black stay with us we'll be right back

2075
01:20:21,510 --> 01:20:19,350
welcome back fade to black i am your

2076
01:20:24,550 --> 01:20:21,520
host jimmy church tonight dr robert m

2077
01:20:28,390 --> 01:20:24,560
shock our go beckley teppy

2078
01:20:31,830 --> 01:20:28,400
special event we do it every year

2079
01:20:34,950 --> 01:20:31,840
probably the most important significance

2080
01:20:38,229 --> 01:20:34,960
site to date that has been found and and

2081
01:20:39,510 --> 01:20:38,239
you know why i say that uh dr shock i

2082
01:20:43,270 --> 01:20:39,520
say this

2083
01:20:46,390 --> 01:20:43,280
uh for one reason and one reason only

2084
01:20:47,030 --> 01:20:46,400
i'm forced to and i'm forced to because

2085
01:20:49,990 --> 01:20:47,040
of what

2086
01:20:51,830 --> 01:20:50,000
you and john anthony west went through

2087
01:20:55,030 --> 01:20:51,840
back in 1992

2088
01:20:58,830 --> 01:20:55,040
uh in san diego when it was presented

2089
01:21:01,510 --> 01:20:58,840
very directly there is nothing before

2090
01:21:02,790 --> 01:21:01,520
giza give us that and we'll have a

2091
01:21:05,430 --> 01:21:02,800
discussion

2092
01:21:05,990 --> 01:21:05,440
right and and and they just did their

2093
01:21:08,470 --> 01:21:06,000
best

2094
01:21:09,030 --> 01:21:08,480
they tried to embarrass you they tried

2095
01:21:12,149 --> 01:21:09,040
to

2096
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:12,159
uh belittle your research

2097
01:21:18,950 --> 01:21:15,840
uh uh not and and not only that part

2098
01:21:19,430 --> 01:21:18,960
but they did not want to sway off of

2099
01:21:23,189 --> 01:21:19,440
their

2100
01:21:26,229 --> 01:21:23,199
stated position and dogma and clearly

2101
01:21:28,950 --> 01:21:26,239
that is not the case today and

2102
01:21:30,709 --> 01:21:28,960
we have got that going for us don't we

2103
01:21:32,390 --> 01:21:30,719
oh absolutely i agree with you and i

2104
01:21:33,750 --> 01:21:32,400
agree with you about how important

2105
01:21:36,709 --> 01:21:33,760
quebec tope is

2106
01:21:37,669 --> 01:21:36,719
um there's no doubt in my mind and i'm

2107
01:21:39,510 --> 01:21:37,679
saying that

2108
01:21:41,510 --> 01:21:39,520
not just because it confirms what we

2109
01:21:42,950 --> 01:21:41,520
were talking when i say we you know

2110
01:21:44,550 --> 01:21:42,960
john anthony west and i were talking

2111
01:21:47,030 --> 01:21:44,560
about back then

2112
01:21:47,990 --> 01:21:47,040
because again to remind people if they

2113
01:21:50,550 --> 01:21:48,000
don't or to

2114
01:21:51,669 --> 01:21:50,560
inform that they don't know about it we

2115
01:21:54,149 --> 01:21:51,679
were talking about

2116
01:21:56,550 --> 01:21:54,159
i was presenting the evidence for the

2117
01:21:57,430 --> 01:21:56,560
older sphinx the origins of the sphinx

2118
01:21:59,510 --> 01:21:57,440
going back to

2119
01:22:00,790 --> 01:21:59,520
what i would now call earlier cycle

2120
01:22:05,350 --> 01:22:00,800
civilization going

2121
01:22:08,390 --> 01:22:05,360
back to that very remote period before

2122
01:22:11,350 --> 01:22:08,400
gobekli tepe before this a single stone

2123
01:22:14,390 --> 01:22:11,360
of gobekli tepe had been excavated

2124
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:14,400
technically it had been discovered but

2125
01:22:19,030 --> 01:22:16,800
people didn't know what it was uh when

2126
01:22:22,390 --> 01:22:19,040
you read the very early literature

2127
01:22:25,590 --> 01:22:22,400
on gobekli tepe they're dismissing it as

2128
01:22:28,709 --> 01:22:25,600
maybe even greco-roman or byzantine

2129
01:22:30,950 --> 01:22:28,719
uh they had no clue until klaus schmidt

2130
01:22:33,189 --> 01:22:30,960
started excavating it

2131
01:22:35,030 --> 01:22:33,199
looking at it and then excavating it

2132
01:22:37,030 --> 01:22:35,040
that it went back to

2133
01:22:38,390 --> 01:22:37,040
such a remote period so when we were

2134
01:22:42,470 --> 01:22:38,400
talking about that

2135
01:22:43,430 --> 01:22:42,480
in the early 1990s literally quebecois

2136
01:22:46,390 --> 01:22:43,440
tepe

2137
01:22:47,270 --> 01:22:46,400
was not on the map it's not and i want

2138
01:22:49,430 --> 01:22:47,280
to emphasize

2139
01:22:50,790 --> 01:22:49,440
it was not a situation where i was

2140
01:22:54,149 --> 01:22:50,800
ignorant of it

2141
01:22:57,189 --> 01:22:54,159
or unaware of it no one knew about it

2142
01:23:00,310 --> 01:22:57,199
in that sense no one knew that

2143
01:23:03,430 --> 01:23:00,320
uh there was going to be this site that

2144
01:23:06,070 --> 01:23:03,440
would ultimately confirm confirm

2145
01:23:08,390 --> 01:23:06,080
how far back civilization sophisticated

2146
01:23:11,189 --> 01:23:08,400
civilization goes so yes it's

2147
01:23:12,629 --> 01:23:11,199
probably the single most important site

2148
01:23:15,830 --> 01:23:12,639
from that perspective

2149
01:23:18,550 --> 01:23:15,840
now what does this do uh

2150
01:23:19,189 --> 01:23:18,560
to egyptologists and you know we can

2151
01:23:22,229 --> 01:23:19,199
bring up

2152
01:23:24,870 --> 01:23:22,239
zahi ahai was you know his

2153
01:23:26,229 --> 01:23:24,880
his famous rant that was caught on video

2154
01:23:29,350 --> 01:23:26,239
and he said i don't know

2155
01:23:31,350 --> 01:23:29,360
it makes them very angry right when

2156
01:23:33,030 --> 01:23:31,360
he said i don't even know what gobekli

2157
01:23:34,950 --> 01:23:33,040
tappy is

2158
01:23:37,110 --> 01:23:34,960
he never heard of it he didn't know what

2159
01:23:38,550 --> 01:23:37,120
it was despite the fact that he and i

2160
01:23:41,590 --> 01:23:38,560
had discussed it

2161
01:23:44,390 --> 01:23:41,600
right and does this he has a

2162
01:23:45,350 --> 01:23:44,400
i guess you know when you're such a a

2163
01:23:50,149 --> 01:23:45,360
brilliant

2164
01:23:52,470 --> 01:23:50,159
man with so many responsibilities

2165
01:23:54,310 --> 01:23:52,480
a few minor discussions with someone

2166
01:23:55,669 --> 01:23:54,320
like myself i mean you know i i can

2167
01:23:57,669 --> 01:23:55,679
understand he would totally

2168
01:23:59,270 --> 01:23:57,679
forget it yeah forget it not important

2169
01:24:00,229 --> 01:23:59,280
especially if it was one of the most

2170
01:24:03,030 --> 01:24:00,239
significant

2171
01:24:05,030 --> 01:24:03,040
sites in the world archaeologically and

2172
01:24:05,910 --> 01:24:05,040
he's an archaeologist of course he would

2173
01:24:08,950 --> 01:24:05,920
forget it

2174
01:24:09,270 --> 01:24:08,960
now we were just nasty i i like you're

2175
01:24:12,870 --> 01:24:09,280
being

2176
01:24:15,510 --> 01:24:12,880
actually

2177
01:24:15,990 --> 01:24:15,520
it but going back to where we were right

2178
01:24:19,669 --> 01:24:16,000
before the

2179
01:24:22,950 --> 01:24:19,679
break there uh for me when you

2180
01:24:25,910 --> 01:24:22,960
look at a site like a gobackly tapi

2181
01:24:26,390 --> 01:24:25,920
any any megalithic site like that of

2182
01:24:29,990 --> 01:24:26,400
such

2183
01:24:32,229 --> 01:24:30,000
sophistication you have to uh

2184
01:24:33,830 --> 01:24:32,239
look at other things and i do in a

2185
01:24:36,229 --> 01:24:33,840
logistical sense

2186
01:24:37,430 --> 01:24:36,239
i think about the population i think

2187
01:24:41,350 --> 01:24:37,440
about feeding

2188
01:24:44,070 --> 01:24:41,360
clothing housing organization leadership

2189
01:24:44,550 --> 01:24:44,080
all of that has to come into play if the

2190
01:24:47,510 --> 01:24:44,560
site

2191
01:24:49,510 --> 01:24:47,520
doesn't build itself there has to be a

2192
01:24:52,550 --> 01:24:49,520
support structure around it

2193
01:24:55,430 --> 01:24:52,560
and it has to be organized

2194
01:24:56,550 --> 01:24:55,440
and that had to have happened with go

2195
01:24:58,229 --> 01:24:56,560
back lee tapi

2196
01:24:59,669 --> 01:24:58,239
there is no other way to look at it

2197
01:25:02,149 --> 01:24:59,679
right oh absolutely

2198
01:25:02,870 --> 01:25:02,159
absolutely and and i i can't help but

2199
01:25:05,270 --> 01:25:02,880
think

2200
01:25:06,390 --> 01:25:05,280
right now when i first came out with the

2201
01:25:09,990 --> 01:25:06,400
sphinx

2202
01:25:13,030 --> 01:25:10,000
being older uh one of my

2203
01:25:13,910 --> 01:25:13,040
critics archaeologists whose honestly i

2204
01:25:16,629 --> 01:25:13,920
don't remember

2205
01:25:17,430 --> 01:25:16,639
the name right now i said i think it was

2206
01:25:20,470 --> 01:25:17,440
a sheep

2207
01:25:22,629 --> 01:25:20,480
said that oh you know

2208
01:25:24,830 --> 01:25:22,639
the people back then they didn't have

2209
01:25:27,189 --> 01:25:24,840
the willpower they didn't have the

2210
01:25:30,950 --> 01:25:27,199
organizational abilities etc

2211
01:25:34,229 --> 01:25:30,960
to carve a sphinx or proto-sphinx

2212
01:25:36,790 --> 01:25:34,239
it's exactly what you're talking about

2213
01:25:37,910 --> 01:25:36,800
and back then they just knew

2214
01:25:41,350 --> 01:25:37,920
quote-unquote

2215
01:25:44,709 --> 01:25:41,360
that that was impossible but um

2216
01:25:46,709 --> 01:25:44,719
you know if it exists you have to assume

2217
01:25:50,070 --> 01:25:46,719
all that it has to be the case and

2218
01:25:53,510 --> 01:25:50,080
quebecois proves that now okay let's

2219
01:25:56,790 --> 01:25:53,520
uh i want to if you

2220
01:25:57,750 --> 01:25:56,800
i ask this question often in a general

2221
01:26:01,030 --> 01:25:57,760
sense

2222
01:26:01,910 --> 01:26:01,040
um but if you were presenting evidence

2223
01:26:04,870 --> 01:26:01,920
in court

2224
01:26:05,990 --> 01:26:04,880
uh when it comes to go backly tapi what

2225
01:26:08,149 --> 01:26:06,000
is the first

2226
01:26:10,070 --> 01:26:08,159
thing that you're gonna push uh to the

2227
01:26:13,669 --> 01:26:10,080
center of the table

2228
01:26:15,590 --> 01:26:13,679
uh representing uh gobekli tapi

2229
01:26:17,750 --> 01:26:15,600
what do you mean if i'm present well

2230
01:26:19,510 --> 01:26:17,760
okay first off i have to say i don't

2231
01:26:21,030 --> 01:26:19,520
like the chord analogy for science

2232
01:26:22,149 --> 01:26:21,040
because that's not the way you do

2233
01:26:25,669 --> 01:26:22,159
science

2234
01:26:28,390 --> 01:26:25,679
but i know where you're coming from

2235
01:26:29,510 --> 01:26:28,400
and and i i wanted to also point out

2236
01:26:31,830 --> 01:26:29,520
that

2237
01:26:33,510 --> 01:26:31,840
you know there's been a lot of academics

2238
01:26:36,229 --> 01:26:33,520
ignoring

2239
01:26:38,070 --> 01:26:36,239
gobekli tepe because they just don't

2240
01:26:40,390 --> 01:26:38,080
want to deal with it psychologically

2241
01:26:40,950 --> 01:26:40,400
they say that the evidence is too strong

2242
01:26:43,830 --> 01:26:40,960
not too

2243
01:26:44,629 --> 01:26:43,840
weak and you know it just overthrows

2244
01:26:46,950 --> 01:26:44,639
them uh

2245
01:26:48,149 --> 01:26:46,960
actually ian hodder said something to

2246
01:26:50,629 --> 01:26:48,159
that fact who

2247
01:26:51,830 --> 01:26:50,639
i have a lot of respect for he did a lot

2248
01:26:55,189 --> 01:26:51,840
of work

2249
01:26:55,750 --> 01:26:55,199
uh at chattahoock for instance which is

2250
01:27:19,510 --> 01:26:55,760
a

2251
01:27:23,990 --> 01:27:19,520
between quebecois tepe

2252
01:27:24,550 --> 01:27:24,000
and egypt sumer but it's quite primitive

2253
01:27:27,189 --> 01:27:24,560
and

2254
01:27:29,590 --> 01:27:27,199
really primitive compared to quebec let

2255
01:27:31,990 --> 01:27:29,600
me that is thousands of years earlier

2256
01:27:33,270 --> 01:27:32,000
so if i were in a court of law making

2257
01:27:36,790 --> 01:27:33,280
the case

2258
01:27:39,030 --> 01:27:36,800
for gobekli tepe i would point out

2259
01:27:39,830 --> 01:27:39,040
evidence like that that here at quebec

2260
01:27:44,470 --> 01:27:39,840
tepe

2261
01:27:47,910 --> 01:27:44,480
we have incredible megalithic structures

2262
01:27:50,550 --> 01:27:47,920
beautifully carved beautifully oriented

2263
01:27:51,270 --> 01:27:50,560
and you have nothing like that for

2264
01:27:54,950 --> 01:27:51,280
thousands

2265
01:27:57,189 --> 01:27:54,960
of years afterwards one exhibition or

2266
01:27:59,030 --> 01:27:57,199
one witness i might call if

2267
01:28:01,110 --> 01:27:59,040
i don't know if they would do it i've

2268
01:28:03,510 --> 01:28:01,120
i've done this several times

2269
01:28:05,430 --> 01:28:03,520
with archaeologists off the record

2270
01:28:06,229 --> 01:28:05,440
who've actually spoken to me off the

2271
01:28:08,229 --> 01:28:06,239
record

2272
01:28:09,750 --> 01:28:08,239
and i've asked them well if you found

2273
01:28:11,990 --> 01:28:09,760
gobekli tepe

2274
01:28:13,270 --> 01:28:12,000
you had no radiocarbon dating and we

2275
01:28:15,750 --> 01:28:13,280
have incredible

2276
01:28:17,590 --> 01:28:15,760
carbon and stratigraphic dating for it

2277
01:28:18,470 --> 01:28:17,600
you found it you found one of the

2278
01:28:20,669 --> 01:28:18,480
pillars

2279
01:28:22,070 --> 01:28:20,679
just on the basis of style and

2280
01:28:24,310 --> 01:28:22,080
sophistication

2281
01:28:26,229 --> 01:28:24,320
how old do you think it could possibly

2282
01:28:27,430 --> 01:28:26,239
be and i may have said this to you

2283
01:28:31,030 --> 01:28:27,440
before jimmy

2284
01:28:33,350 --> 01:28:31,040
uh one of them said literally 600 bc

2285
01:28:35,910 --> 01:28:33,360
would be his best estimate for it

2286
01:28:39,110 --> 01:28:35,920
another one said maybe a thousand bc

2287
01:28:42,229 --> 01:28:39,120
right not 10 000 bc

2288
01:28:42,709 --> 01:28:42,239
or thereabouts so right there you would

2289
01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:42,719
have

2290
01:28:45,830 --> 01:28:45,280
people testifying if i could get them in

2291
01:28:48,709 --> 01:28:45,840
court

2292
01:28:49,430 --> 01:28:48,719
that look this looks like it should only

2293
01:28:51,830 --> 01:28:49,440
be

2294
01:28:53,030 --> 01:28:51,840
two thousand six hundred three thousand

2295
01:28:56,070 --> 01:28:53,040
years old

2296
01:28:58,950 --> 01:28:56,080
yet we have the german archaeological

2297
01:29:00,830 --> 01:28:58,960
institute work in conjunction with the

2298
01:29:04,709 --> 01:29:00,840
local authorities doing

2299
01:29:07,910 --> 01:29:04,719
incredibly detailed precise stratigraphy

2300
01:29:10,229 --> 01:29:07,920
isotope studies which have demonstrated

2301
01:29:12,709 --> 01:29:10,239
that has all the isotope signatures of

2302
01:29:16,149 --> 01:29:12,719
the end of the last ice age

2303
01:29:19,030 --> 01:29:16,159
radiocarbon dating putting it back

2304
01:29:19,590 --> 01:29:19,040
to the same time period etc there's no

2305
01:29:23,270 --> 01:29:19,600
doubt

2306
01:29:25,669 --> 01:29:23,280
that it goes back to that early period

2307
01:29:27,990 --> 01:29:25,679
yet it shows sophistication that you

2308
01:29:30,870 --> 01:29:28,000
don't expect for another

2309
01:29:31,350 --> 01:29:30,880
let's say 9 000 years or so now what do

2310
01:29:38,709 --> 01:29:31,360
we

2311
01:29:41,910 --> 01:29:38,719
excavations now in the dating sense

2312
01:29:45,350 --> 01:29:41,920
is there is is there stuff

2313
01:29:48,629 --> 01:29:45,360
underneath go back lee tappy

2314
01:29:51,430 --> 01:29:48,639
right is it is it layered on one on on

2315
01:29:53,110 --> 01:29:51,440
because i've heard discussions about

2316
01:29:55,270 --> 01:29:53,120
this can you clear this up

2317
01:29:56,390 --> 01:29:55,280
okay okay there's there's a couple of

2318
01:29:59,510 --> 01:29:56,400
questions here this

2319
01:30:02,629 --> 01:29:59,520
this is not an easy question

2320
01:30:05,750 --> 01:30:02,639
to go into great detail on

2321
01:30:07,189 --> 01:30:05,760
in a short discussion like this but the

2322
01:30:09,350 --> 01:30:07,199
quick answer is

2323
01:30:10,629 --> 01:30:09,360
there's a lot more to be excavated at

2324
01:30:14,310 --> 01:30:10,639
quebec tepe

2325
01:30:16,470 --> 01:30:14,320
now some of the enclosures

2326
01:30:18,070 --> 01:30:16,480
and you can see this when you go there

2327
01:30:20,149 --> 01:30:18,080
and you go and you can

2328
01:30:21,350 --> 01:30:20,159
look at it and they they really have we

2329
01:30:23,430 --> 01:30:21,360
were talking about this before they

2330
01:30:25,990 --> 01:30:23,440
really set up quite beautifully

2331
01:30:27,189 --> 01:30:26,000
uh for the major portion that's been

2332
01:30:30,310 --> 01:30:27,199
excavated where

2333
01:30:32,390 --> 01:30:30,320
it's all under this modern canopy

2334
01:30:34,870 --> 01:30:32,400
so it's relatively open but not

2335
01:30:37,030 --> 01:30:34,880
completely open to all the elements

2336
01:30:37,910 --> 01:30:37,040
but you can walk around it you can look

2337
01:30:39,669 --> 01:30:37,920
down in it

2338
01:30:42,070 --> 01:30:39,679
and you will see there and you can see

2339
01:30:45,430 --> 01:30:42,080
with your own eyes that some of the clo

2340
01:30:47,750 --> 01:30:45,440
enclosures they have hit bedrock so the

2341
01:30:49,270 --> 01:30:47,760
some of the enclosures the pillars are

2342
01:30:52,790 --> 01:30:49,280
actually

2343
01:30:55,750 --> 01:30:52,800
erected on bedrock platforms

2344
01:30:56,310 --> 01:30:55,760
so once you've hit bedrock like that no

2345
01:30:58,629 --> 01:30:56,320
you're not

2346
01:31:00,229 --> 01:30:58,639
excavating anything underneath those

2347
01:31:02,709 --> 01:31:00,239
particular ones

2348
01:31:05,030 --> 01:31:02,719
others are not on bedrock and when

2349
01:31:07,830 --> 01:31:05,040
you're not on bedrock

2350
01:31:09,430 --> 01:31:07,840
yes there could be things underneath

2351
01:31:11,110 --> 01:31:09,440
also you will see that there's a

2352
01:31:13,910 --> 01:31:11,120
stratigraphy there

2353
01:31:16,550 --> 01:31:13,920
where in some cases to get to the lower

2354
01:31:19,910 --> 01:31:16,560
ones they had to excavate

2355
01:31:20,950 --> 01:31:19,920
above it so when you excavate above to

2356
01:31:23,830 --> 01:31:20,960
get below

2357
01:31:24,629 --> 01:31:23,840
you destroy what is above this is one of

2358
01:31:27,750 --> 01:31:24,639
the big

2359
01:31:30,709 --> 01:31:27,760
problems with archaeology

2360
01:31:33,270 --> 01:31:30,719
it is a destructive process as you

2361
01:31:37,750 --> 01:31:33,280
excavate and to get to the lowest

2362
01:31:40,870 --> 01:31:37,760
layers you have to destroy what is above

2363
01:31:41,750 --> 01:31:40,880
if people go to my website and then

2364
01:31:45,030 --> 01:31:41,760
connect to the

2365
01:31:46,950 --> 01:31:45,040
oracle website and start looking there

2366
01:31:48,310 --> 01:31:46,960
they will see right on the home page of

2367
01:31:50,709 --> 01:31:48,320
the oracle website

2368
01:31:52,070 --> 01:31:50,719
a nice picture of what quebec litape

2369
01:31:54,870 --> 01:31:52,080
looks like now and

2370
01:31:56,470 --> 01:31:54,880
if they scroll through or explore the

2371
01:31:58,709 --> 01:31:56,480
website they'll see other pictures of

2372
01:32:00,790 --> 01:31:58,719
quebec latape the same on my website so

2373
01:32:01,910 --> 01:32:00,800
they can start having some visual images

2374
01:32:04,070 --> 01:32:01,920
of this

2375
01:32:06,950 --> 01:32:04,080
the other thing about answering your

2376
01:32:10,070 --> 01:32:06,960
question is that there is a whole

2377
01:32:13,189 --> 01:32:10,080
other portion of quebec tepe right now

2378
01:32:14,229 --> 01:32:13,199
which is off limits to anyone where they

2379
01:32:17,430 --> 01:32:14,239
are doing

2380
01:32:19,750 --> 01:32:17,440
more excavations and we don't know

2381
01:32:22,310 --> 01:32:19,760
exactly how old those

2382
01:32:23,990 --> 01:32:22,320
that portion is it hasn't been dated yet

2383
01:32:25,750 --> 01:32:24,000
or exactly what's there i mean i

2384
01:32:26,629 --> 01:32:25,760
understand that they want to do a

2385
01:32:30,390 --> 01:32:26,639
certain level

2386
01:32:32,790 --> 01:32:30,400
excavation before they release data

2387
01:32:33,910 --> 01:32:32,800
but even before klaus schmidt passed

2388
01:32:37,030 --> 01:32:33,920
away

2389
01:32:38,550 --> 01:32:37,040
he was making statements that he thought

2390
01:32:40,870 --> 01:32:38,560
portions might be

2391
01:32:42,629 --> 01:32:40,880
at least a couple thousand or several

2392
01:32:45,910 --> 01:32:42,639
thousand years older

2393
01:32:47,189 --> 01:32:45,920
than the later portions which themselves

2394
01:32:50,709 --> 01:32:47,199
are

2395
01:32:52,709 --> 01:32:50,719
12 000 years old and then another thing

2396
01:32:56,229 --> 01:32:52,719
that ties in here

2397
01:33:00,310 --> 01:32:56,239
is that some of the pillars that we

2398
01:33:01,910 --> 01:33:00,320
see in the older portions already

2399
01:33:03,910 --> 01:33:01,920
when i say already more or less that

2400
01:33:05,270 --> 01:33:03,920
we've excavated we know they're older

2401
01:33:08,229 --> 01:33:05,280
than some of the later

2402
01:33:10,629 --> 01:33:08,239
strata above some of those pillars

2403
01:33:14,229 --> 01:33:10,639
there's no doubt in my mind

2404
01:33:18,070 --> 01:33:14,239
that they are being reused so we have

2405
01:33:21,510 --> 01:33:18,080
older pillars that are being reused

2406
01:33:23,590 --> 01:33:21,520
12 000 years ago they were

2407
01:33:25,430 --> 01:33:23,600
you know potentially artifacts to the

2408
01:33:27,830 --> 01:33:25,440
quebecois depe people

2409
01:33:29,030 --> 01:33:27,840
so that pushes thinks back and i'm not

2410
01:33:31,110 --> 01:33:29,040
just saying this

2411
01:33:32,950 --> 01:33:31,120
klaus schmidt had actually come to the

2412
01:33:34,950 --> 01:33:32,960
same conclusion before

2413
01:33:36,070 --> 01:33:34,960
as i understand what he would has

2414
01:33:37,910 --> 01:33:36,080
written and what he

2415
01:33:40,470 --> 01:33:37,920
said to me he came to the same

2416
01:33:44,950 --> 01:33:40,480
conclusion before he passed away that

2417
01:33:47,910 --> 01:33:44,960
some of the pillars that were being used

2418
01:33:48,950 --> 01:33:47,920
in the older portions that we know of in

2419
01:33:52,070 --> 01:33:48,960
quebec

2420
01:33:54,470 --> 01:33:52,080
are themselves older still or

2421
01:33:56,709 --> 01:33:54,480
to give another example there's in the

2422
01:33:58,709 --> 01:33:56,719
irfa museum what's known as sort of a

2423
01:33:59,590 --> 01:33:58,719
totem pole it looks sort of like a stone

2424
01:34:02,709 --> 01:33:59,600
totem pole

2425
01:34:05,350 --> 01:34:02,719
that was found in a context in a wall

2426
01:34:06,229 --> 01:34:05,360
where it was being reused in a later

2427
01:34:09,510 --> 01:34:06,239
structure

2428
01:34:13,189 --> 01:34:09,520
incredibly ancient

2429
01:34:16,550 --> 01:34:13,199
already but it indicates that

2430
01:34:18,709 --> 01:34:16,560
that pillar was even older was maybe

2431
01:34:21,189 --> 01:34:18,719
even being venerated by the people of

2432
01:34:23,270 --> 01:34:21,199
quebec tepe as an older artifact

2433
01:34:24,950 --> 01:34:23,280
now and when we talk about the

2434
01:34:28,149 --> 01:34:24,960
possibility of

2435
01:34:28,790 --> 01:34:28,159
of other sites and and maybe even older

2436
01:34:32,629 --> 01:34:28,800
sites

2437
01:34:36,390 --> 01:34:32,639
uh in the area a few months ago

2438
01:34:40,870 --> 01:34:36,400
uh bangkuku tara

2439
01:34:45,590 --> 01:34:40,880
was was released out into the public

2440
01:34:47,830 --> 01:34:45,600
and what do we know about that site

2441
01:34:49,510 --> 01:34:47,840
i i don't know a lot of we don't know a

2442
01:34:52,870 --> 01:34:49,520
lot about right now but

2443
01:34:55,990 --> 01:34:52,880
it seems to be a very old site uh

2444
01:34:57,510 --> 01:34:56,000
you know com comparable to quebecois

2445
01:35:00,629 --> 01:34:57,520
tech pay

2446
01:35:03,830 --> 01:35:00,639
and uh i think it really indicates

2447
01:35:05,510 --> 01:35:03,840
that uh you know i

2448
01:35:07,109 --> 01:35:05,520
hate to use the cliche but we're looking

2449
01:35:08,629 --> 01:35:07,119
at the tip

2450
01:35:12,149 --> 01:35:08,639
of what do they say the tip of the

2451
01:35:15,350 --> 01:35:12,159
iceberg proverbial iceberg

2452
01:35:19,430 --> 01:35:15,360
of sights is it is it uh

2453
01:35:22,390 --> 01:35:19,440
representing uh the possibility that

2454
01:35:22,870 --> 01:35:22,400
this i'm going to just say belief system

2455
01:35:26,870 --> 01:35:22,880
right

2456
01:35:30,229 --> 01:35:26,880
this tradition of uh gobekli tepi

2457
01:35:33,350 --> 01:35:30,239
uh could have been part of uh

2458
01:35:35,590 --> 01:35:33,360
the culture going across the land where

2459
01:35:37,270 --> 01:35:35,600
uh gobekli tepi was in a singular

2460
01:35:40,830 --> 01:35:37,280
situation

2461
01:35:42,149 --> 01:35:40,840
that this was an established belief

2462
01:35:44,870 --> 01:35:42,159
system uh

2463
01:35:45,430 --> 01:35:44,880
across the highlands yeah no i think it

2464
01:35:47,830 --> 01:35:45,440
could

2465
01:35:49,510 --> 01:35:47,840
definitely be the case in my it might

2466
01:35:53,270 --> 01:35:49,520
have been um

2467
01:35:54,470 --> 01:35:53,280
but you know i hate here's the problem i

2468
01:35:56,470 --> 01:35:54,480
have personally

2469
01:35:57,590 --> 01:35:56,480
when archaeologists don't know what

2470
01:35:59,590 --> 01:35:57,600
something is

2471
01:36:02,070 --> 01:35:59,600
they tend to call it a temple and that

2472
01:36:03,510 --> 01:36:02,080
turns into a religious site and belief

2473
01:36:05,669 --> 01:36:03,520
system or if they

2474
01:36:07,350 --> 01:36:05,679
it's not a temple that becomes a tomb

2475
01:36:12,070 --> 01:36:07,360
it's a temple or a tomb

2476
01:36:17,590 --> 01:36:15,510
not nullifies but it simplifies what

2477
01:36:19,350 --> 01:36:17,600
probably for the people which is was a

2478
01:36:22,790 --> 01:36:19,360
much more complex

2479
01:36:23,910 --> 01:36:22,800
system if that makes sense it does so i

2480
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:23,920
don't want to

2481
01:36:27,510 --> 01:36:25,760
denigrate it too much in the sense of

2482
01:36:30,070 --> 01:36:27,520
trying to oversimplify

2483
01:36:31,510 --> 01:36:30,080
but in terms of a philosophy of belief

2484
01:36:34,790 --> 01:36:31,520
civilization

2485
01:36:38,310 --> 01:36:34,800
i can't talk philosophy philosophy

2486
01:36:41,350 --> 01:36:38,320
belief system set of values

2487
01:36:43,510 --> 01:36:41,360
a culture a civilization whatever

2488
01:36:45,270 --> 01:36:43,520
you want to call it i think it was

2489
01:36:46,550 --> 01:36:45,280
probably yeah it could have been quite

2490
01:36:49,350 --> 01:36:46,560
widespread

2491
01:36:51,430 --> 01:36:49,360
and you had sort of centers just like we

2492
01:36:54,229 --> 01:36:51,440
do nowadays centers

2493
01:36:58,310 --> 01:36:54,239
of uh learning centers of education

2494
01:37:04,390 --> 01:37:01,350
you know i it's hard to know

2495
01:37:06,790 --> 01:37:04,400
because i also don't want to impose our

2496
01:37:07,790 --> 01:37:06,800
system and values too much on those

2497
01:37:09,270 --> 01:37:07,800
people

2498
01:37:12,390 --> 01:37:09,280
[Music]

2499
01:37:12,790 --> 01:37:12,400
but we can draw analogies well and i i

2500
01:37:16,149 --> 01:37:12,800
want

2501
01:37:16,950 --> 01:37:16,159
before uh uh uh we're going to say good

2502
01:37:20,070 --> 01:37:16,960
night

2503
01:37:22,470 --> 01:37:20,080
there is uh it's it's not just

2504
01:37:24,229 --> 01:37:22,480
go back lee teppy for me personally and

2505
01:37:25,109 --> 01:37:24,239
i've brought this up many times over the

2506
01:37:29,189 --> 01:37:25,119
years

2507
01:37:32,830 --> 01:37:29,199
and that is cara hoons oh yes yes yes

2508
01:37:36,470 --> 01:37:32,840
in armenia yes and uh you know it's

2509
01:37:39,669 --> 01:37:36,480
uh it's a situation there

2510
01:37:41,109 --> 01:37:39,679
where yes the similarities uh with

2511
01:37:43,590 --> 01:37:41,119
stonehenge

2512
01:37:45,430 --> 01:37:43,600
uh are are there you know because of

2513
01:37:47,270 --> 01:37:45,440
what they represent that's fine

2514
01:37:48,709 --> 01:37:47,280
but carol hoons is different it's a it's

2515
01:37:52,229 --> 01:37:48,719
a definite

2516
01:37:55,430 --> 01:37:52,239
uh astronomical observation

2517
01:37:56,470 --> 01:37:55,440
site with holes that are uh drilled

2518
01:38:00,950 --> 01:37:56,480
through the

2519
01:38:02,870 --> 01:38:00,960
upright megalithic stones that you align

2520
01:38:04,790 --> 01:38:02,880
and look through and observe

2521
01:38:08,390 --> 01:38:04,800
constellations and stars

2522
01:38:12,149 --> 01:38:08,400
through them again it predates

2523
01:38:15,750 --> 01:38:12,159
stonehenge by a couple of thousand years

2524
01:38:16,709 --> 01:38:15,760
and it represents a knowledge and a

2525
01:38:19,750 --> 01:38:16,719
technology

2526
01:38:22,550 --> 01:38:19,760
that they clearly understood didn't they

2527
01:38:24,149 --> 01:38:22,560
yeah no but now i think this is an

2528
01:38:26,390 --> 01:38:24,159
interesting topic

2529
01:38:29,109 --> 01:38:26,400
because stonehenge and you are talking

2530
01:38:32,790 --> 01:38:29,119
the traditional dating for stonehenge

2531
01:38:35,750 --> 01:38:32,800
and all of these sites and and my

2532
01:38:37,669 --> 01:38:35,760
assessment as i've been looking at them

2533
01:38:39,910 --> 01:38:37,679
a lot of them

2534
01:38:40,870 --> 01:38:39,920
how do i want to say this just like the

2535
01:38:43,510 --> 01:38:40,880
sphinx

2536
01:38:44,149 --> 01:38:43,520
they were used and they were reused and

2537
01:38:47,510 --> 01:38:44,159
they were

2538
01:38:48,470 --> 01:38:47,520
rebuilt one of the beauties of quebec

2539
01:38:51,350 --> 01:38:48,480
lee tepe

2540
01:38:52,229 --> 01:38:51,360
is that it wasn't reused and rebuilt it

2541
01:38:56,709 --> 01:38:52,239
was buried

2542
01:38:59,830 --> 01:38:56,719
purposefully so it actually has retained

2543
01:39:03,030 --> 01:38:59,840
a certain pristine aspect to it

2544
01:39:04,709 --> 01:39:03,040
versus stonehenge has been mucked about

2545
01:39:07,270 --> 01:39:04,719
with

2546
01:39:08,870 --> 01:39:07,280
the sphinx was certainly that case but

2547
01:39:11,430 --> 01:39:08,880
where i'm going with this

2548
01:39:11,990 --> 01:39:11,440
is that you're correct about the

2549
01:39:14,470 --> 01:39:12,000
traditional

2550
01:39:15,990 --> 01:39:14,480
dates of stonehenge but there were other

2551
01:39:17,830 --> 01:39:16,000
structures there

2552
01:39:20,550 --> 01:39:17,840
and this has now been demonstrated going

2553
01:39:24,830 --> 01:39:20,560
back thousands of years earlier

2554
01:39:26,229 --> 01:39:24,840
so we seem to have this level of

2555
01:39:29,430 --> 01:39:26,239
sophistication

2556
01:39:32,709 --> 01:39:29,440
in many parts of the world um at

2557
01:39:34,229 --> 01:39:32,719
very very early age

2558
01:39:36,550 --> 01:39:34,239
whether it's armenia whether it's

2559
01:39:38,229 --> 01:39:36,560
quebecois tepe whether it's stonehenge

2560
01:39:42,870 --> 01:39:38,239
even going into

2561
01:39:49,590 --> 01:39:46,390
gunan padang i'm convinced in java now

2562
01:39:52,629 --> 01:39:49,600
katie and i had the chance to visit

2563
01:39:56,709 --> 01:39:52,639
that site a few years ago we

2564
01:40:00,550 --> 01:39:56,719
have i think globally indications

2565
01:40:03,830 --> 01:40:00,560
of high culture and civilization

2566
01:40:08,149 --> 01:40:03,840
a high level of sophistication going

2567
01:40:11,430 --> 01:40:08,159
back to this remote period

2568
01:40:12,070 --> 01:40:11,440
is it well let me let me jump in and see

2569
01:40:14,950 --> 01:40:12,080
if i can

2570
01:40:17,350 --> 01:40:14,960
make a point and and you can let me know

2571
01:40:20,550 --> 01:40:17,360
if i'm just stepping way out of bounds

2572
01:40:23,669 --> 01:40:20,560
but is it possible that

2573
01:40:26,629 --> 01:40:23,679
the ideas and and possibly

2574
01:40:28,310 --> 01:40:26,639
uh pagan okay i want to use that word

2575
01:40:31,510 --> 01:40:28,320
specifically

2576
01:40:34,629 --> 01:40:31,520
with cara hoonge

2577
01:40:38,870 --> 01:40:34,639
and stonehenge

2578
01:40:42,790 --> 01:40:38,880
is it possible that there was

2579
01:40:46,550 --> 01:40:42,800
uh a migration of people

2580
01:40:49,590 --> 01:40:46,560
across you know through and over

2581
01:40:51,350 --> 01:40:49,600
uh europe over to great britain where

2582
01:40:54,390 --> 01:40:51,360
the construction of

2583
01:40:57,030 --> 01:40:54,400
of stonehenge happened possibly from the

2584
01:40:59,750 --> 01:40:57,040
same culture from the same ideas

2585
01:41:00,229 --> 01:40:59,760
uh that were were done over in cara

2586
01:41:01,990 --> 01:41:00,239
hoons

2587
01:41:03,510 --> 01:41:02,000
a couple of thousand years before i've

2588
01:41:07,669 --> 01:41:03,520
actually i've actually

2589
01:41:09,990 --> 01:41:07,679
i'm not going to judge personally

2590
01:41:11,590 --> 01:41:10,000
right now on this radio program whether

2591
01:41:14,550 --> 01:41:11,600
that's

2592
01:41:15,590 --> 01:41:14,560
the case or not because i think we have

2593
01:41:17,510 --> 01:41:15,600
not enough

2594
01:41:18,870 --> 01:41:17,520
evidence and data points to say

2595
01:41:22,229 --> 01:41:18,880
definitively

2596
01:41:25,270 --> 01:41:22,239
but on the other hand you

2597
01:41:28,550 --> 01:41:25,280
you are not the first person

2598
01:41:29,350 --> 01:41:28,560
that i've heard suggest this it based

2599
01:41:31,910 --> 01:41:29,360
based on

2600
01:41:33,510 --> 01:41:31,920
good data but we don't have a lot of

2601
01:41:35,750 --> 01:41:33,520
data points in which way does a

2602
01:41:38,070 --> 01:41:35,760
migration go et cetera et cetera

2603
01:41:40,149 --> 01:41:38,080
i tend to think right now based on the

2604
01:41:43,910 --> 01:41:40,159
evidence that we have is that you have

2605
01:41:45,669 --> 01:41:43,920
uh interconnection should i say that

2606
01:41:48,310 --> 01:41:45,679
between the different areas you have

2607
01:41:52,470 --> 01:41:48,320
exchange of ideas

2608
01:41:56,870 --> 01:41:54,870
so was it physically people migrating

2609
01:41:59,350 --> 01:41:56,880
and resettling or just

2610
01:42:00,390 --> 01:41:59,360
being contact with each other i don't

2611
01:42:01,750 --> 01:42:00,400
know but i think

2612
01:42:04,310 --> 01:42:01,760
we certainly have to look at those

2613
01:42:05,510 --> 01:42:04,320
possibilities something that i got

2614
01:42:08,470 --> 01:42:05,520
involved with and i

2615
01:42:10,070 --> 01:42:08,480
still find of great interest earlier

2616
01:42:12,629 --> 01:42:10,080
should we say in my career because i

2617
01:42:15,950 --> 01:42:12,639
haven't spent a lot of time on recently

2618
01:42:18,790 --> 01:42:15,960
was the whole dogma of

2619
01:42:22,950 --> 01:42:18,800
trans-oceanic voyages in

2620
01:42:25,430 --> 01:42:22,960
remote ancient times and that was

2621
01:42:26,229 --> 01:42:25,440
so much you know there's so much dogma

2622
01:42:29,109 --> 01:42:26,239
that

2623
01:42:30,950 --> 01:42:29,119
the americas were totally separate and

2624
01:42:33,910 --> 01:42:30,960
distinct from the old world

2625
01:42:34,790 --> 01:42:33,920
whether it was old world asia or old

2626
01:42:37,510 --> 01:42:34,800
world

2627
01:42:38,149 --> 01:42:37,520
um europe and africa and that there was

2628
01:42:40,709 --> 01:42:38,159
no

2629
01:42:42,790 --> 01:42:40,719
contact between them before columbus and

2630
01:42:44,229 --> 01:42:42,800
then we found out about the vikings or

2631
01:42:46,950 --> 01:42:44,239
the norsemen who

2632
01:42:47,590 --> 01:42:46,960
actually had made it earlier and now

2633
01:42:50,790 --> 01:42:47,600
there's

2634
01:42:53,030 --> 01:42:50,800
so much evidence that um there were even

2635
01:42:55,510 --> 01:42:53,040
earlier connections so i think we're

2636
01:42:58,950 --> 01:42:55,520
seeing the same thing when we go back

2637
01:43:01,430 --> 01:42:58,960
to much further much further dates

2638
01:43:02,229 --> 01:43:01,440
yeah and when uh and i i wanted to

2639
01:43:03,750 --> 01:43:02,239
mention too

2640
01:43:05,750 --> 01:43:03,760
that the whole clovis i don't know if

2641
01:43:07,669 --> 01:43:05,760
your audience knows about clovis when i

2642
01:43:09,669 --> 01:43:07,679
was in college oh the first people in

2643
01:43:11,669 --> 01:43:09,679
america were the clovis people

2644
01:43:14,950 --> 01:43:11,679
now we know that they go back there were

2645
01:43:16,870 --> 01:43:14,960
connections including with europe

2646
01:43:18,070 --> 01:43:16,880
thousands and thousands of years earlier

2647
01:43:19,830 --> 01:43:18,080
than that so

2648
01:43:21,830 --> 01:43:19,840
all these dates are getting pushed back

2649
01:43:24,310 --> 01:43:21,840
or so many dates are being pushed back

2650
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:24,320
and so much more information is coming

2651
01:43:27,830 --> 01:43:24,880
out

2652
01:43:29,750 --> 01:43:27,840
that there were connections over vast

2653
01:43:33,109 --> 01:43:29,760
distances

2654
01:43:34,709 --> 01:43:33,119
in incredibly ancient times well and we

2655
01:43:38,229 --> 01:43:34,719
have to ask ourselves

2656
01:43:42,149 --> 01:43:38,239
as we are about to say good night is it

2657
01:43:45,430 --> 01:43:42,159
a situation where it was just

2658
01:43:47,270 --> 01:43:45,440
the development of homo sapiens and

2659
01:43:49,189 --> 01:43:47,280
these things would have just happened

2660
01:43:50,310 --> 01:43:49,199
anyway around the world no i don't

2661
01:43:53,430 --> 01:43:50,320
believe that for a second

2662
01:43:55,750 --> 01:43:53,440
right or or was there

2663
01:43:57,030 --> 01:43:55,760
a central point of information and

2664
01:44:00,229 --> 01:43:57,040
instruction

2665
01:44:04,950 --> 01:44:00,239
and and all of this stuff was taught and

2666
01:44:07,270 --> 01:44:04,960
learned uh from a higher civilization

2667
01:44:08,790 --> 01:44:07,280
that we don't know anything about today

2668
01:44:10,709 --> 01:44:08,800
and we are starting to

2669
01:44:11,990 --> 01:44:10,719
figure it out right and i think that's

2670
01:44:14,870 --> 01:44:12,000
where we are

2671
01:44:16,550 --> 01:44:14,880
we're starting to find out we're

2672
01:44:19,669 --> 01:44:16,560
starting to learn about it

2673
01:44:20,149 --> 01:44:19,679
i don't know if we ultimately in 10

2674
01:44:24,229 --> 01:44:20,159
years

2675
01:44:27,270 --> 01:44:24,239
talking about

2676
01:44:30,149 --> 01:44:27,280
quebec litepe is the point um

2677
01:44:31,830 --> 01:44:30,159
i don't know i mean quebec tepe may just

2678
01:44:33,990 --> 01:44:31,840
be and i'm not putting quebec let me

2679
01:44:37,189 --> 01:44:34,000
down at all it may just be a site right

2680
01:44:39,430 --> 01:44:37,199
now that we're aware of a waypoint

2681
01:44:40,870 --> 01:44:39,440
in a waypoint but it may be that we find

2682
01:44:42,950 --> 01:44:40,880
something else where

2683
01:44:44,149 --> 01:44:42,960
we say oh well then this is even older

2684
01:44:45,830 --> 01:44:44,159
and that may be the

2685
01:44:47,510 --> 01:44:45,840
point where it all began so that's

2686
01:44:49,669 --> 01:44:47,520
that's a tricky thing

2687
01:44:50,910 --> 01:44:49,679
but i don't believe for a second i think

2688
01:44:54,149 --> 01:44:50,920
it's a very

2689
01:44:56,950 --> 01:44:54,159
old-fashioned notion that somehow

2690
01:44:58,629 --> 01:44:56,960
oh you know in the old world in the new

2691
01:45:00,310 --> 01:44:58,639
world more or less in the americas

2692
01:45:03,189 --> 01:45:00,320
versus the europe

2693
01:45:05,030 --> 01:45:03,199
and africa just because humans are

2694
01:45:07,830 --> 01:45:05,040
humans they sort of follow the same

2695
01:45:10,709 --> 01:45:07,840
trajectory oh they'll all develop

2696
01:45:11,189 --> 01:45:10,719
x y and z eventually so it's not that

2697
01:45:12,870 --> 01:45:11,199
they were

2698
01:45:14,629 --> 01:45:12,880
in connected with each other i think

2699
01:45:18,870 --> 01:45:14,639
that's nonsense and i think that the

2700
01:45:21,830 --> 01:45:18,880
actual evidence shows that's nonsense

2701
01:45:23,189 --> 01:45:21,840
there are just too many similarities and

2702
01:45:26,629 --> 01:45:23,199
too many specific

2703
01:45:30,790 --> 01:45:29,350
that i think precludes we'll call it

2704
01:45:34,310 --> 01:45:30,800
parallel

2705
01:45:37,350 --> 01:45:34,320
development

2706
01:45:39,910 --> 01:45:37,360
that's right and uh dr shock

2707
01:45:41,590 --> 01:45:39,920
robert thank you so much what a great

2708
01:45:43,590 --> 01:45:41,600
show tonight

2709
01:45:46,390 --> 01:45:43,600
thank you it's always fun but you know

2710
01:45:49,030 --> 01:45:46,400
what happens we always um

2711
01:45:49,669 --> 01:45:49,040
two hours but two hours passes by so

2712
01:45:51,830 --> 01:45:49,679
quickly

2713
01:45:53,830 --> 01:45:51,840
yes and i can't wait to do it again and

2714
01:45:55,910 --> 01:45:53,840
please give my best to katie

2715
01:45:57,270 --> 01:45:55,920
and i'm looking forward just like

2716
01:45:57,990 --> 01:45:57,280
everybody else is to this new

2717
01:46:00,550 --> 01:45:58,000
documentary

2718
01:46:02,310 --> 01:46:00,560
and everybody can go and contribute over

2719
01:46:04,470 --> 01:46:02,320
at robertssock.com and

2720
01:46:05,750 --> 01:46:04,480
and and also through oracle and all of

2721
01:46:08,550 --> 01:46:05,760
that information

2722
01:46:10,629 --> 01:46:08,560
is right there on your website again be

2723
01:46:12,390 --> 01:46:10,639
safe and be well and our thoughts and

2724
01:46:14,070 --> 01:46:12,400
prayers are with you and your family

2725
01:46:16,390 --> 01:46:14,080
and the recent passing of your father

2726
01:46:18,390 --> 01:46:16,400
too as well okay thank you so much

2727
01:46:19,510 --> 01:46:18,400
thank you so much i appreciate that

2728
01:46:22,790 --> 01:46:19,520
you're the best robert

2729
01:46:25,350 --> 01:46:22,800
have a great night and with that

2730
01:46:26,550 --> 01:46:25,360
that's our go beckley teppy special

2731
01:46:28,870 --> 01:46:26,560
event and

2732
01:46:31,830 --> 01:46:28,880
yeah i'm looking at the count and i

2733
01:46:35,510 --> 01:46:31,840
think we're at 120 121.

2734
01:46:38,189 --> 01:46:35,520
uh dr shock is absolutely the very

2735
01:46:39,510 --> 01:46:38,199
best i want everybody to go and visit

2736
01:46:40,669 --> 01:46:39,520
robertshock.com

2737
01:46:43,669 --> 01:46:40,679
the links are over at

2738
01:46:46,550 --> 01:46:43,679
jimmychurchradio.com the documentary

2739
01:46:48,310 --> 01:46:46,560
is shot now it needs to be completed and

2740
01:46:51,030 --> 01:46:48,320
distributed of course

2741
01:46:51,830 --> 01:46:51,040
and all of your help is appreciated go

2742
01:46:55,270 --> 01:46:51,840
and visit

2743
01:46:57,830 --> 01:46:55,280
robert shock.com you can check out the

2744
01:46:59,669 --> 01:46:57,840
clip for his new documentary and you can

2745
01:47:02,790 --> 01:46:59,679
also help contribute

2746
01:47:04,669 --> 01:47:02,800
to getting the film done robert

2747
01:47:05,990 --> 01:47:04,679
shock.com the links are over at

2748
01:47:07,750 --> 01:47:06,000
jimmychurchradio.com

2749
01:47:09,669 --> 01:47:07,760
datablacks executive producers rita

2750
01:47:10,950 --> 01:47:09,679
kamarian shows produced by hill j paul

2751
01:47:13,189 --> 01:47:10,960
renee dennis and

2752
01:47:14,629 --> 01:47:13,199
kevin announcers are steve harter g

2753
01:47:18,070 --> 01:47:14,639
vitoa mark d kobar

2754
01:47:21,910 --> 01:47:18,080
webmaster drew the geek music doug

2755
01:47:23,830 --> 01:47:21,920
aldrich introspaceboy spaceboymusic.com

2756
01:47:25,109 --> 01:47:23,840
paid to black is produced by kj sierra

2757
01:47:27,590 --> 01:47:25,119
for the game changer network and

2758
01:47:29,750 --> 01:47:27,600
syndication is kgra

2759
01:47:32,070 --> 01:47:29,760
the planet this broadcasts own a

2760
01:47:33,750 --> 01:47:32,080
copyrighted 2020 by fade to black in the

2761
01:47:35,510 --> 01:47:33,760
game changer network inc

2762
01:47:37,109 --> 01:47:35,520
it cannot be rebroadcast downloaded

2763
01:47:37,750 --> 01:47:37,119
copied or used anywhere in the known

2764
01:47:39,430 --> 01:47:37,760
universe

2765
01:47:41,189 --> 01:47:39,440
without written permission from fade to

2766
01:47:43,510 --> 01:47:41,199
black of the game changer network

2767
01:47:45,430 --> 01:47:43,520
army host jimmy church tomorrow night

2768
01:47:49,510 --> 01:47:45,440
linda moulton howe

2769
01:48:12,670 --> 01:47:49,520
until then i want everybody to be safe